Change in "plays at the plate" mechanics?

[grayhawk]

I was at the IBOA Clinic this past weekend in Huntington Beach, CA and the lead instructor was Adam Schwarz. Adam is a AA Umpire in the Texas League and an instructor at Harry's school. One of the things he was teaching was how to position yourself for plays at the plate. He said that the current method is to always be in position at 3BLX. The reason is because the majority of plays are swipe tags and if the play develops into a collision play, you can continue rotating your position past 3BLX closer to the 1B line (NOT 1BLX) to get a better angle for the collision play. He also made the suggestion to key on F2's glove shoulder and follow it because it will guide you to the best angle for the tag.

Just curious to know if others are using these mechanics because I thought the most common way of handling plays at the plate was to set up at the point of the plate and then adjust based on the play. If the throw is on line, then set up on 1BLX and if the throw takes F2 off line to set up on 3BLX. Also, as a general rule, throws that come in from RF should be taken 3BLX and throws from LF should be taken 1BLX. Adam said that what they are now teaching is always 3BLX as I descibed above.

What say you?

[Umpire in Chief]

I was at the IBOA Clinic this past weekend in Huntington Beach, CA and the lead instructor was Adam Schwarz. Adam is a AA Umpire in the Texas League and an instructor at Harry's school. One of the things he was teaching was how to position yourself for plays at the plate. He said that the current method is to always be in position at 3BLX. The reason is because the majority of plays are swipe tags and if the play develops into a collision play, you can continue rotating your position past 3BLX closer to the 1B line (NOT 1BLX) to get a better angle for the collision play. He also made the suggestion to key on F2's glove shoulder and follow it because it will guide you to the best angle for the tag.

Just curious to know if others are using these mechanics because I thought the most common way of handling plays at the plate was to set up at the point of the plate and then adjust based on the play. If the throw is on line, then set up on 1BLX and if the throw takes F2 off line to set up on 3BLX. Also, as a general rule, throws that come in from RF should be taken 3BLX and throws from LF should be taken 1BLX. Adam said that what they are now teaching is always 3BLX as I descibed above.

What say you?

Tripp Gibson was teaching start at PoP then follow the catchers left hip , same concept.

[UmpTTS43]

This is a mechanic that has been debated and disected again and again. I believe this is an excellent mechanic and here is why.

1} It makes your starting position the point where percentages dictate the majority of the plays are to be ruled on. (swipe tags)

2} In the event of a collision play, rotating towards first and possibly a bit in fair territory puts you on the receiving side of the glove giving you a much better view of a possible dropped ball.

3} Starting at the point of the plate puts you in a position where you will have to adjust no matter what play develops and requires an accurate read to get into proper position and that can take away time and positioning for a possible adjustment step.

4} While starting at the point of the plate, a misread and/or slow read will not put you in an optimum position no matter which way you adjust.

Since no collision plays are allowed in amateur ball, I teach this mechanic in order to put the PU in the best position to make his adjustment step either way. In the event that F2 is receiving a true throw and blocking the plate, you can take your adjustment step/steps to the right while having the entire play in front of you. Plate F2 and runner.

Concerning pro mechanics, since 2007 starting positions for plays at the plate have evolved from 1BLE to POP to now 3BLE.

[Mr Umpire]

I agree with it and have been doing it since I learned about 3BLX. I have taken every play from that and feel it is the best position to see the play with nothing obstructing and better prevents the umpire from being in the middle. Such as a passed ball with F1 backing it up. Plus, it does make getting into position faster and easier since most plays can be viewed from this angle with no issues. And, less to think about and possibly be too late in any position.

I like that it is being taught this way. Luckily, I have been doing it this way. To me, it just seems so much more natural and instinctive.

[AZump78]

I learned about this about a year ago (also from Tripp) and, once getting used to being "on the move" following the tag play versus "set" like all other plays you take, it gives you a GREAT look since you maintain the proper angle on those long swipe tags as the catcher reaches and swipes around at a runner sliding to the outside part of the plate.

You will see some (but not all) MLB guys doing this, usually ending up making the call in fair territory in front of the plate.

The hard part is "untraining" yourself from the old way. You will chicken out the first few times and stay at third base line extended, but keep at it!

[Umpire in Chief]

Of course there is a downside to 3BLX or lining up to the catchers hip/shoulder. For a direct collision you have to make a quick adjustment. I think specifically of Hedeki Matsui it seams at every play at the plate I recall seeing him he goes directly into the catcher (even sliding) nothing dirty or bush just seems to be the way he does it.

[mstaylor]

I have always taught POP and adjust. However the other I teach is there is no cut in stone right or wrong, there is a certain amount of feel to it, so you can't say, "Do it this way on this and that way on that."

[Umpire in Chief]

the other I teach is there is no cut in stone right or wrong, there is a certain amount of feel to it, so you can't say, "Do it this way on this and that way on that."

That is where an umpire has developed the knowledge or skill to be able to read a play and advance from If X happens I need to go to point Y, to reading the play and the situation and making an informed decision based on his experience or judgement that in the given situation that the text book mechanic may not always be best.

[Fittske24]

Unfortunately there is no "magic spot" on the field that will allow you to see every play correctly every time. Its all about making adjustments as the play is developing. The PU should be reading several factors as the play develops:

1) Where the throw is coming from (LF,CF,RF)

2) Quality of throw (Is the throw on line or up the line)

3) Location of the runner when the catcher receives the throw.

Starting at the point of the plate gives you the best opportunity to read all of these factors and adjust to either 1BLEX, 3BLEX or even into fair territory to rule on the play:

[UmpTTS43]

Unfortunately there is no "magic spot" on the field that will allow you to see every play correctly every time. Its all about making adjustments as the play is developing. The PU should be reading several factors as the play develops:

1) Where the throw is coming from (LF,CF,RF)

2) Quality of throw (Is the throw on line or up the line)

3) Location of the runner when the catcher receives the throw.

Starting at the point of the plate gives you the best opportunity to read all of these factors and adjust to either 1BLEX, 3BLEX or even into fair territory to rule on the play:

Not disagreeing with you.

While starting at the point of the plate, we adjust after we have have made a read on the throw into home. If the throw originates in the outfield and is not cut off, we usually have time to make the proper read, adjust to an optimum position, make an adjustment step if needed, come set and make the call. When the throw from the outfield is cut off by an infielder and the infielder subsequently throws home, we have a very limited time, fractions of a second perhaps, to read, adjust, and come set. Seldom are we able to get into our optimum position when this happens and are at times still moving into position when a tag is applied. Imagine starting in the A position and trying to get into proper position for the play at first only when the infielder releases the ball.

This is why I advocate starting 3BLE regardless of where the final throw to home originates. We are in an optimum starting position, dictated by the most likely play to occur, and are able to make an adjustment step or two as the play dictates, come set and make the call.

YMMV

[MidAmUmp]

Unfortunately there is no "magic spot" on the field that will allow you to see every play correctly every time. Its all about making adjustments as the play is developing. The PU should be reading several factors as the play develops:

1) Where the throw is coming from (LF,CF,RF)

2) Quality of throw (Is the throw on line or up the line)

3) Location of the runner when the catcher receives the throw.

Starting at the point of the plate gives you the best opportunity to read all of these factors and adjust to either 1BLEX, 3BLEX or even into fair territory to rule on the play:

The basic mechanic should be start at the point and adjust. Once an umpire develops some instinct, then I would suggest starting more towards 3rd base line extended and adjust around and possibly into fair territory on the 1st base line if necessary. I would note on the graphics posted the plate umpire is way too close to the play.

[D62 blue]

I was at the IBOA Clinic this past weekend in Huntington Beach, CA and the lead instructor was Adam Schwarz. Adam is a AA Umpire in the Texas League and an instructor at Harry's school. One of the things he was teaching was how to position yourself for plays at the plate. He said that the current method is to always be in position at 3BLX. The reason is because the majority of plays are swipe tags and if the play develops into a collision play, you can continue rotating your position past 3BLX closer to the 1B line (NOT 1BLX) to get a better angle for the collision play. He also made the suggestion to key on F2's glove shoulder and follow it because it will guide you to the best angle for the tag.

Just curious to know if others are using these mechanics because I thought the most common way of handling plays at the plate was to set up at the point of the plate and then adjust based on the play. If the throw is on line, then set up on 1BLX and if the throw takes F2 off line to set up on 3BLX. Also, as a general rule, throws that come in from RF should be taken 3BLX and throws from LF should be taken 1BLX. Adam said that what they are now teaching is always 3BLX as I descibed above.

What say you?

i was at the clinic also grayhawk , what group were you in ? . there were a couple of newer mechanics that adam was teaching . some of them involved foot work changes . this was my 4th time in a row attending the clinic . each year there have been minor adjutments or updates to some of the mechanics . also depending what group of instructors you had , there were even slight variations on some mechanics from instructors .

marc

[grayhawk]

I was at the IBOA Clinic this past weekend in Huntington Beach, CA and the lead instructor was Adam Schwarz. Adam is a AA Umpire in the Texas League and an instructor at Harry's school. One of the things he was teaching was how to position yourself for plays at the plate. He said that the current method is to always be in position at 3BLX. The reason is because the majority of plays are swipe tags and if the play develops into a collision play, you can continue rotating your position past 3BLX closer to the 1B line (NOT 1BLX) to get a better angle for the collision play. He also made the suggestion to key on F2's glove shoulder and follow it because it will guide you to the best angle for the tag.

Just curious to know if others are using these mechanics because I thought the most common way of handling plays at the plate was to set up at the point of the plate and then adjust based on the play. If the throw is on line, then set up on 1BLX and if the throw takes F2 off line to set up on 3BLX. Also, as a general rule, throws that come in from RF should be taken 3BLX and throws from LF should be taken 1BLX. Adam said that what they are now teaching is always 3BLX as I descibed above.

What say you?

i was at the clinic also grayhawk , what group were you in ? . there were a couple of newer mechanics that adam was teaching . some of them involved foot work changes . this was my 4th time in a row attending the clinic . each year there have been minor adjutments or updates to some of the mechanics . also depending what group of instructors you had , there were even slight variations on some mechanics from instructors .

marc

I was in group 4. I agree about the variations based on the instructors - everyone has a slightly different opinion on some of the mechanics. Which group were you in?

[D62 blue]

I was at the IBOA Clinic this past weekend in Huntington Beach, CA and the lead instructor was Adam Schwarz. Adam is a AA Umpire in the Texas League and an instructor at Harry's school. One of the things he was teaching was how to position yourself for plays at the plate. He said that the current method is to always be in position at 3BLX. The reason is because the majority of plays are swipe tags and if the play develops into a collision play, you can continue rotating your position past 3BLX closer to the 1B line (NOT 1BLX) to get a better angle for the collision play. He also made the suggestion to key on F2's glove shoulder and follow it because it will guide you to the best angle for the tag.

Just curious to know if others are using these mechanics because I thought the most common way of handling plays at the plate was to set up at the point of the plate and then adjust based on the play. If the throw is on line, then set up on 1BLX and if the throw takes F2 off line to set up on 3BLX. Also, as a general rule, throws that come in from RF should be taken 3BLX and throws from LF should be taken 1BLX. Adam said that what they are now teaching is always 3BLX as I descibed above.

What say you?

i was at the clinic also grayhawk , what group were you in ? . there were a couple of newer mechanics that adam was teaching . some of them involved foot work changes . this was my 4th time in a row attending the clinic . each year there have been minor adjutments or updates to some of the mechanics . also depending what group of instructors you had , there were even slight variations on some mechanics from instructors .

marc

I was in group 4. I agree about the variations based on the instructors - everyone has a slightly different opinion on some of the mechanics. Which group were you in?

well group 4 also !!! maybe i was standing right next to you in line . iam a tall and big man , i had on (especially sunday ) navy pullover jacket from cooperstown dream park . saturday i had a LS navy shirt . sound familiar ? small world !!! im D62 staff umpire .

marc

[johnnyg08]

This is a great thread guys. I've been talking with my association for the last couple of years about a new philosophy about taking plays at the plate.

Sometimes it's nice to read about other people throughout the country who have the same philosophy. Thanks again...it has been a great read so far.

[grayhawk]

I was at the IBOA Clinic this past weekend in Huntington Beach, CA and the lead instructor was Adam Schwarz. Adam is a AA Umpire in the Texas League and an instructor at Harry's school. One of the things he was teaching was how to position yourself for plays at the plate. He said that the current method is to always be in position at 3BLX. The reason is because the majority of plays are swipe tags and if the play develops into a collision play, you can continue rotating your position past 3BLX closer to the 1B line (NOT 1BLX) to get a better angle for the collision play. He also made the suggestion to key on F2's glove shoulder and follow it because it will guide you to the best angle for the tag.

Just curious to know if others are using these mechanics because I thought the most common way of handling plays at the plate was to set up at the point of the plate and then adjust based on the play. If the throw is on line, then set up on 1BLX and if the throw takes F2 off line to set up on 3BLX. Also, as a general rule, throws that come in from RF should be taken 3BLX and throws from LF should be taken 1BLX. Adam said that what they are now teaching is always 3BLX as I descibed above.

What say you?

i was at the clinic also grayhawk , what group were you in ? . there were a couple of newer mechanics that adam was teaching . some of them involved foot work changes . this was my 4th time in a row attending the clinic . each year there have been minor adjutments or updates to some of the mechanics . also depending what group of instructors you had , there were even slight variations on some mechanics from instructors .

marc

I was in group 4. I agree about the variations based on the instructors - everyone has a slightly different opinion on some of the mechanics. Which group were you in?

well group 4 also !!! maybe i was standing right next to you in line . iam a tall and big man , i had on (especially sunday ) navy pullover jacket from cooperstown dream park . saturday i had a LS navy shirt . sound familiar ? small world !!! im D62 staff umpire .

marc

I remember you Marc - we spoke quite a bit throughout the weekend. On Sunday, I was wearing an MLB Clinic navy pullover. Saturday I was wearing a powder blue shirt.

Steve

[Fittske24]

I would note on the graphics posted the plate umpire is way too close to the play.

Several years ago, I would agree with you. However, now it is being taught to get closer to the play. Being closer helps shorten those last second adjustments as the play develops. The further away you are the more distance you have to move to get the proper angle to see the TAG.

All of these guyse have great angles to see the TAG. All of them are near the "recommended" spot

[MidAmUmp]

I would note on the graphics posted the plate umpire is way too close to the play.

Several years ago, I would agree with you. However, now it is being taught to get closer to the play. Being closer helps shorten those last second adjustments as the play develops. The further away you are the more distance you have to move to get the proper angle to see the TAG.

All of these guyse have great angles to see the TAG. All of them are near the "recommended" spot

For professional umpires, yes, that's a good angle and it's fine to be that close. However, in amateur baseball, plays don't always happen the way they should and umpires have to be mindful of issues such as malicious contact, collisions and obstruction...therefore, umpires need to create some space to see everything happen. That's what's being taught, unless you attend a pro clinic where they don't have to teach those extra things. I can assure you if you take a play that close to the plate and an NCAA evaluator is in the stands, you'll be graded down for taking a play that close.

[Fittske24]

For professional umpires, yes, that's a good angle and it's fine to be that close. However, in amateur baseball, plays don't always happen the way they should and umpires have to be mindful of issues such as malicious contact, collisions and obstruction...therefore, umpires need to create some space to see everything happen. That's what's being taught, unless you attend a pro clinic where they don't have to teach those extra things. I can assure you if you take a play that close to the plate and an NCAA evaluator is in the stands, you'll be graded down for taking a play that close.

I do agree that this is an advance mechanic. As far as this not being recommended at the NCAA level, I will respectively have to disagree. "The NCAA Essentials of Observation/Evaluation for the D2 Umpire" manual, describes the same "point of the plate" method for taking plays at the plate that is currently taught by Pro instructors. NCAA recommends a distance of 10-12 feet away from the point of the plate. This 10-12 ft. area is located closely behind the catcher’s box. I will also agree that some NCAA evaluators may score you negatively using this method. The problem is that instead of using the standards set out by the NCAA, some evaluators rely on their own experience and individual tastes when evaluating umpires. The MiLB evaluators, grade all umpires per PUBC standars regardless if they agree or not. The NCAA is slowly moving in this direction. This is evident with the development of documented observation/evaluation criteria. Below is an excerpt from page 19 "Play situations at home" of the NCAA's "Essentials of Observation/Evaluation for the D2 umpire" manual:

The home plate umpire rules on plays being made on runners attempting to score. These plays usually involve a slide/tag combination. The home plate umpire must anticipate the play situation and be in position to correctly rule on the action at home. To begin, when there is a runner in scoring position, more often than not, the home plate umpire will remain at home letting the action come to him. The proper "read" position for the home plate umpire in scoring situations, when he stays home, is located approximately 10-12 feet directly behind the Point of the Plate. This distance can be judged by the observing the back half of the batter’s box (from the location of the baseline cutouts of home plate) to a location behind the end line of the six-foot catcher’s box on a properly lined field. From this position, the home plate umpire will adjust his position as he anticipates the type of play which will occur on the runner attempting to score. The first play which can occur is the "Collision." The prime viewing location for the umpire is the initial Point-of-Plate position. Here, the umpire does not move from his "read" position as mentioned above. The throw is usually quick and direct (from third base, shortstop, or left field) and the runner’s slide and catcher’s tag will happen on the third-base facing edge of home plate. There will be contact between the runner and the catcher. The umpire must be in a position to have his vision on the catcher’s glove as the tag is being applied. The Point-of-Plate position gives the plate umpire an unobstructed view of the catcher’s glove. Of course, the umpire, moving in an arc consistent with the curved cutout of the home plate dirt circle, may make slight adjustments in his position as the play demands, and the exceptional umpire may make a complete reposition after the tag has been applied to insure that the ball was not dislodged by the sliding runner. Any repositioning on the part of the exceptional umpire to insure the ball was not dislodged by the runner before the call is made enhances umpire believability after the signal is performed.

The second play which can occur is the "swipe tag." Following standard procedure, the home plate umpire will assume his "read" position at the Point of the Plate. As the throw comes in to the catcher, (usually from the outfield or first/second base) the runner will slide to the outside of the plate attempting a "slide-by" trying to tag the Point of the Plate with his hand. This causes the catcher to glove the throw and swipe at the runner. The home plate umpire, moving in an arc from the point of the plate to the third base line extended, will have an unobstructed view of the catcher’s glove tagging the runner if needed. The exceptional umpire will readjust his position after the tag is applied, continuing to move in an arc (more toward first base) which will open up a secondary visual angle on the catcher’s glove and tag. This secondary movement is very critical in the "back tag" situation where the runner has slid by the catcher and the catcher must now "chase" the runner attempting to tag the runner’s back. In response, the exceptional umpire will work in his arc moving to improve his unobstructed vision on the catcher’s glove.

[UmpTTS43]

For professional umpires, yes, that's a good angle and it's fine to be that close. However, in amateur baseball, plays don't always happen the way they should and umpires have to be mindful of issues such as malicious contact, collisions and obstruction...therefore, umpires need to create some space to see everything happen. That's what's being taught, unless you attend a pro clinic where they don't have to teach those extra things. I can assure you if you take a play that close to the plate and an NCAA evaluator is in the stands, you'll be graded down for taking a play that close.

I do agree that this is an advance mechanic. As far as this not being recommended at the NCAA level, I will respectively have to disagree. "The NCAA Essentials of Observation/Evaluation for the D2 Umpire" manual, describes the same "point of the plate" method for taking plays at the plate that is currently taught by Pro instructors. NCAA recommends a distance of 10-12 feet away from the point of the plate. This 10-12 ft. area is located closely behind the catcher’s box.

All of the pics above show a position of 4-6 ft. As stated by MidAmUmp and your documentation, this is too close.

[MidAmUmp]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. While my credentials and my clinic's credentials speak for themselves, I will say that working in 2 NCAA D-I conferences and knowing those who I know, I will stand behind what I have said. I'm not advocating an umpire be in the grass, but an AMATEUR umpire taking an AMATEUR play at the plate cannot be that close to the play or it will explode on them.

[johnnyg08]

Am I reading this correctly? MidAmUmp, you are agreeing w/ "UmpTTS43" correct?

[Fittske24]

For professional umpires, yes, that's a good angle and it's fine to be that close. However, in amateur baseball, plays don't always happen the way they should and umpires have to be mindful of issues such as malicious contact, collisions and obstruction...therefore, umpires need to create some space to see everything happen. That's what's being taught, unless you attend a pro clinic where they don't have to teach those extra things. I can assure you if you take a play that close to the plate and an NCAA evaluator is in the stands, you'll be graded down for taking a play that close.

I do agree that this is an advance mechanic. As far as this not being recommended at the NCAA level, I will respectively have to disagree. "The NCAA Essentials of Observation/Evaluation for the D2 Umpire" manual, describes the same "point of the plate" method for taking plays at the plate that is currently taught by Pro instructors. NCAA recommends a distance of 10-12 feet away from the point of the plate. This 10-12 ft. area is located closely behind the catcher’s box.

All of the pics above show a position of 4-6 ft. As stated by MidAmUmp and your documentation, this is too close.

The 10-12 feet only refers to the starting position at the point of the plate. The pictures show the umpires "adjusted" position after a read of swipe tag and adjustment to 3BLEX side of the plate for the conclusion of the play. My only concern with getting further back is that it will make the distance needed to adjust to see swipe tag or block tag much grater. Let's agree for amateur umpires, to make sure you are far enough away so the play doesn't explode on you. For some that may be 6-10ft for others that may be more. Regardless of the distance, I think the key take always here are:

• Starting position ( point of the plate),
  
• Adjustment to type of play (swipe or block tag),
  
• Continued adjustment to ensure the tag attempt is seen as the play continues to develop.
  

[MidAmUmp]

Am I reading this correctly? MidAmUmp, you are agreeing w/ "UmpTTS43" correct?

Maybe he's agreeing with me!

What you would be taught at the Mid-American Umpire Clinic is this...

1. Start at the point of the plate.
   
2. Read how your catcher is setting up (in front of the plate for a swipe or blocking the plate for a crash)
   
3. Once you see runner & ball coming to the plate, establish your angle based on how the catcher has set up. More than likely it will be 3rd base line extended because catchers are making a higher percentage of swipe tags.
   
4. We do not teach taking a play in a specific spot because each play is different, but on a swipe tag we recommend working 3rd base line extended and potentially around towards the 1st base line if necessary to get a better angle as the play develops. But we do not want umpires standing on top of the play, we want them back so they can see everything happen.
   

The argument I have is in the diagrams posted earlier by someone, the plate umpire is seen taking the plays basically in the batter's boxes. In AMATEUR baseball that is too close. Yes, I know pro umpires are taking plays from there, but throws are true and they don't have to worry about malicious contact and other issues we have to deal with. All they are looking for is safe/out and secure possession of the ball. All photos posted to support taking plays that close are MLB umpires. And while I'm sure MLB and MiLB umpires are teaching at clinics to take plays that close, again, they don't have to deal with the crash issues we do.

Again, I'm not saying take the play in the grass behind the plate, but establish an angle and create some distance. If I could figure out how to post a picture on here, I'd post a photo of me taking a play at the plate to show you what I'm talking about.

[Fittske24]

While my credentials and my clinic's credentials speak for themselves, I will say that working in 2 NCAA D-I conferences and knowing those who I know, I will stand behind what I have said.

No need to throw your resume at me to prove your point.... I know you are a rockstar umpire in your neck of the woods. :notworthy: