Verbalizing Balls and Strikes

[Umpire in Chief]

I don't agree with the hand signals either. I could worry less about the fans hearing me call where the pitch is, the coaches are my concern and if they see it they are still likely to try and eat your lunch when you miss one.

Just call it as you see it if the catcher wants to know where that one missed, as long as he's not being an ass or doing it too often, let him know. Just a quick "high," "away" or whatever you have that's just a courtesy. But can disappear quickly with the situation.

I like the catchers who ask "Too ____" this tells me they already know it was _______ and I can just say, "yup."

[BrianC14]

I completely agree!

Same as I except that I give a discrete inside or out hand signal coming out of the crouch... emphasis on the discrete part!

Again, I completely agree

What is the difference between vocal or visual communication? other then the fact that vocal includes everyone including the crowd (whom I would like to keep out of the conversation) and a discrete visual will more than likely only involve the bench, who should know what to look for.

Why vocalize this? A simple discrete hand signal intended for the benches will suffice.

Why? his pitcher has been trying to locate and hasn't been able to do so and I let him and the bench know with a non-vocal signal.

seriously?

Yes. Seriously.

The verbal gets it across to them that I know where the pitch was; there's no confusion on my part. Being silent may leave that impression ("he's not sure").

A "discrete" (sic) hand signal? No, I'm not playing those games. What if they don't understand what that "signal" means? Worse, what if they don't see it? Even worse - what if your partner doesn't know what you're doing?

I use a two-word verbalization because I don't CARE if both benches hear my verbal statement of "That's off." or "That's down". I say it just loud enough for both dugouts to hear - they might eventually both be the recipient of that verbalization anyway. There are no secret signals necessary. I mean, it seems to me as though you'd need to have a pregame with the coaches to discuss your "discreet signals". The verbal statement clears up any confusion that they might have, and it preempts their "Where was that?" BS.

[BrianC14]

I don't agree with the hand signals either. I could worry less about the fans hearing me call where the pitch is, the coaches are my concern and if they see it they are still likely to try and eat your lunch when you miss one.

Just call it as you see it if the catcher wants to know where that one missed, as long as he's not being an ass or doing it too often, let him know. Just a quick "high," "away" or whatever you have that's just a courtesy. But can disappear quickly with the situation.

I like the catchers who ask "Too ____" this tells me they already know it was _______ and I can just say, "yup."

Yes, exactly!

DISCLAIMER: the following is not recommended for lower levels: (HS JV and below):

Just the other day I had a catcher ask me during our little 'back & forth' as warmup tosses were underway, (you know, he's telling what his pitcher has, fastball, slider, curve, etc....) and then he asks, "Are you open to questions?"

And I say to him, "If you mean if it's OK for you to ask about location? Sure I am. But the chances are, I'm as likely to call out the location on a particularly close one, anyway. But if you need to ask go ahead, just don't turn around on me to do it, because that looks bad. Just ask me quietly, and you'll get an honest answer."

And that's the way the whole game went. The issue for the other catcher came up when he did NOT ask that same question at the start; if they don't ask, I don't offer up that information. For the record, in the college games I work, the catchers routinely ask that sort of thing if they haven't seen you before. It's all about their maturity level and baseball savvy.

Again: I do not recommend this for anything below high school varsity.

[kcfan102]

I agree with Brian. One thing he didn't mention, and the big reason I don't do hand signals is because it just feels awkward. My favorites are the "push up bra" and "patting the leprechaun on the head".

I had a tournament last weekend. This place was littered with rats, except for one.This pitcher had been trying and trying and trying the outside. My dad was in the can and he called all four of them balls. They looked close, but he stayed consistant. Coach (not a rat) came out to talk to his pitcher. I usually listen in on the conversion because I'm nosy like that, though I don't let them know I'm listening. I hear this, my jaw dropped to the floor:

"He's not giving you the outside pitch you want. Start more towards the middle of the plate and work your way out to find his outside zone."

This guy got it. I wanted to start a slow clap from the C slot. If we had more coaches like this the world would be a better place.

I've only recently started talking about location. It's always been "that's high" or "thats out" like Brian said and I've only done it a few times total. The only person that needs to hear the location is the catcher. That's it. I don't care if coach hears it, I don't care if pitcher knows it. The catcher will tell his pitcher where to throw the ball. And if the catcher has his back to you, he won't see the silly hand signal.

[DirtyDawg]

Dynamite drop in Monty! That broadcasting school is really starting to pay off.

Fly Ball.......Caught

[Dragon29]

Personally, I would stay away from that first one... that's a bit too close to coaching. Yes, the batter can hear it, but so what? Your statement is directed to the catcher, and it's advising him of what the pitcher should do.

I think it would come off better if you simply said, "That's up." Keep it simple.

The second one, I see no issue there... but I wouldn't give it a matter of degrees... "too far out"... Just say, "That's off." They'll know when the hit the right spot, because you'll call a strike then.

BTW, an occasional (and savvy) high school batter will turn to me - usually after he's fouled one off, or swung and missed, and asked, "Was that a strike?"

I give them an honest answer. A simple 'Yep' or 'Nope' suffices. They're smart enough to know what that means.

Just my $0.02. YMMV.

Brian - Good advice - thanks. I'll use it.

[noumpere]

I I usually listen in on the conversion because I'm nosy like that,

How can you listen in from short left or right field? :smachhead:

[Dragon29]

Exactly - when the DM or Pitching Coach goes to speak w/F1, get away!

The coach needs to have the freedom to say whatever he wants to say to his pitcher without the fear of an umpire taking umbrage to what he may tell him.

Go West, young man, go West!

[Guest]

Consider this:

Anytime you either signal or verbalize strikes on a consistent basis, you raise the amount of oppourtunities for potential arguments to your zone.

For example, let's say you ball a pitch for being inside, but coach on the bench (or the catcher, or batter and his coaches if you reverse the situation) thinks it knicked the corner but missed low. All is good until he sees (or hears) you indicate the pitch is instead inside. You've just invited an oppourtunity for an argument.

In Canada, the entire country, from the kid taking his first Level 1 clinic to the guys we sent to the WBC in 09, is taught to say absolutely nothing about location when calling the pitch.

But it is naive to tell someone not to respond to a catcher or batter when asked, of course granted that they do it correctly. If the catcher does turn around or something, the plate just got some dirt on it and needs to be brushed - "I've got no problem letting you know where it missed, just don't turn around to ask - it looks bad." If the benches gripe, employ your game management techniques as appropriate.

But like I said, if you signal or verbalize location on every pitch, you leave the door wide open to an increased number of ball and strike arguments.

[BrianC14]

Consider this:

Anytime you either signal or verbalize strikes on a consistent basis, you raise the amount of oppourtunities for potential arguments to your zone.

For example, let's say you ball a pitch for being inside, but coach on the bench (or the catcher, or batter and his coaches if you reverse the situation) thinks it knicked the corner but missed low. All is good until he sees (or hears) you indicate the pitch is instead inside. You've just invited an oppourtunity for an argument.

In Canada, the entire country, from the kid taking his first Level 1 clinic to Corrie Davis and Stephane Dupont, the guys we sent to the WBC in 09, is taught to say absolutely nothing about location when calling the pitch.

But it is naive to tell someone not to respond to a catcher or batter when asked, of course granted that they do it correctly. If the catcher does turn around or something, the plate just got some dirt on it and needs to be brushed - "I've got no problem letting you know where it missed, just don't turn around to ask - it looks bad." If the benches gripe, employ your game management techniques as appropriate.

But like I said, if you signal or verbalize location on every pitch, you leave the door wide open to an increased number of ball and strike arguments.

Bingo!

[JaxRolo]

This Poll has been a total surprise to me. 30 to 6 at this time.

I watch a lot of games Rec, AAU, Travel, HS and don't ever recall hearing an Umpire Verbalize a Ball.

[UmpJM]

I always verbalize called strikes and balls.

I have been taught that strikes should be called loud enough for the stands to hear and balls loud enough for the dugouts to hear. If it's a wild pitch that goes to the backstop, I still verbalize it, though I may be the only one who knows I did. As others have mentioned, I feel it helps me with my timing.

I will let each catcher know early in the game where a "close" pitch missed, as long as he's not acting like a jerk.

JM

[noumpere]

I worked a college game this afternoon with someone who didn't verbalize "ball." A couple of times on close pitches, he sttod up in exactly the same manner as he would stand to start his called strike mechanic. Caused both some confusion and some consternation.

[cardinalfan]

For years I called the strike and said nothing on a ball. I switched a few years ago to verbalize balls & strikes on every pitch. I call the "ball" a little quicker than the "strike" because I don't raise up out of my stance to verbalize it.

I never give a location, but I will gladly work with catchers when they ask in the right way. Good catchers usually are smart enough to say, "Was that just a little low, blue?" or "Do we need to bring it in a little?" instead of "Where did that one miss?"

I feel if the zone is consistent I don't have to tell them where it missed after the first inning or two. If it isn't consistent, telling them where I thought it missed probably wouldn't help anyway.

I watch a lot of minor league baseball - AA & AAA - and try to learn mechanics from the umpires. I hardly ever hear a guy give the location of a ball. Gotta be a reason for that!

[LMSANS]

At a JV game on Friday, I call a ball on a knee high pitch outside. Next pitch is at the same height but over the outer third of the plate. Of course, I strike it. Catcher says, "How much further can he go out?". I started laughing and said "somehwere between those last 2." :beerbang

[POLOGREEN]

I am loud and emphatic on strikes much softer on balls. Back to the screen nothing wayyyyy outside nothing. Strike everyone hears..... ball batter, catcher and I know.

[JaxRolo]

I can't believe its 39-7

I tried to verbalize Balls in my last game. Found myself forgetting to do it in half the pitches. I guess I have to get used to it.

[BrianC14]

I can't believe its 39-7

I tried to verbalize Balls in my last game. Found myself forgetting to do it in half the pitches. I guess I have to get used to it.

I agree. I'm betting that there are far more guys who don't verbalize 'Ball' than would care to admit. (or would realize that they aren't doing it).

I know in my case it was two months of being chastised into calling them every time.

[DirtyDawg]

I can't believe its 39-7

I tried to verbalize Balls in my last game. Found myself forgetting to do it in half the pitches. I guess I have to get used to it.

I was once told it takes a week to create a habit, and 3 months to break it!

[kylejt]

The LOUDNESS, or even the need for a "ball!" call is proportionate to the proximity of the pitch. Everyone knows this. There's no need to call every ball. If it helps your timing, go get 'em. But there's no need in the game for it.

Strikes are the same. A 3-0 cookie, taken all the way gets a simple call. Some strikes you need to sell, and others you don't. Experience will lead the way here.

And giving location? I don't know. To me, it shows you're not confident in your decisions, and have to make an excuse of some sort. "BALL! inside" , says to me, "I need to let the coaches know I didn't miss it." Good coaches know where you thought it missed. Bad coaches..... well, I don't care what they think.

I've seen all sorts hand gestures, leans and tells over the years. They all just look (sound) bad, IMO. And yup, that includes the MLB guys that do it too.

[BrianC14]

The LOUDNESS, or even the need for a "ball!" call is proportionate to the proximity of the pitch. Everyone knows this. There's no need to call every ball. If it helps your timing, go get 'em. But there's no need in the game for it.

Strikes are the same. A 3-0 cookie, taken all the way gets a simple call. Some strikes you need to sell, and others you don't. Experience will lead the way here.

And giving location? I don't know. To me, it shows you're not confident in your decisions, and have to make an excuse of some sort. "BALL! inside" , says to me, "I need to let the coaches know I didn't miss it." Good coaches know where you thought it missed. Bad coaches..... well, I don't care what they think.

I've seen all sorts hand gestures, leans and tells over the years. They all just look (sound) bad, IMO. And yup, that includes the MLB guys that do it too.

Well, for the record, I learned to provide location - and again, I repeat - used judiciously - from a 5-time CWS championship umpire. I do not recommend it be used for low-level ball. The reasons should be obvious.

As for seeing MLB guys use hand signals. Well, when you're at that level, you can pretty well do whatever it is you want. Little of what they do is recommended for those of us who still labor in the amateur world.

[Umpire in Chief]

I can't believe its 39-7

I tried to verbalize Balls in my last game. Found myself forgetting to do it in half the pitches. I guess I have to get used to it.

It is hard to get into that habbit I say I'm calling ball 70ish percent of the time. I'm trying to push that number up.

[jjb]

I got to work a couple National Championships in softball a couple years ago, and learned from a few really great umpires. Coaches and scorekeepers seem to like it. It took a little while, but now it's second nature to me. You use it like you'd use a verbalized Strike: not on the obvious, but on everything else. I can't use the location mechanic: it was beaten out of me too many years ago...

...like the new avatar, Warren...

[Umpire in Chief]

...like the new avatar, Warren...

Hey, Hey, E C, You look so good to me.

[Dragon29]

. . . Well, when you're at that level, you can pretty well do whatever it is you want. Little of what they do is recommended for those of us who still labor in the amateur world.

I think this is an idea that too many people on sites like this lose sight of far too often.

Well said.