Verbalizing Balls and Strikes

[JaxRolo]

Seems like this subject has been brought up in several Threads.

So I would like a POLL to see how many of you actually Verbalize Out-Loud both Balls and Strikes.

[Umpire in Chief]

I started out calling every pitch it could be 20' away from the plate and I'd call, "Ball."

Some vets told me to stop calling the obvious ones and I did.

Now, since I've heard that college wants every pitch called loud enough for both dugouts to hear, I'm trying to get back into calling every pitch.

It was easy enough to break my original habit, but it's been so much tougher to get back to it.

[DirtyDawg]

I'm the same way. I was told not to by the local leagues, and then I got to reading the mechanics portion of the ASA handbook. It said I should do it, so now I've gotten back into the habit of doing it. The biggest problem I had for breaking was not verbilizing where the "ball" was. (Ex. "Ball, Low")

[BrianC14]

If it goes to the backstop, you don't need to have the dugouts hear it - everyone knows.

But you should verbalize it ( and I now do) just enough so that you did... it helps to keep your timing consistent.

I've had them fly 10 feet over - (!) - the thing to do is stay down in the crouch, and after it passes, give it a soft, "Ball".

Sometimes I'll add a bit of Bob Uecker to it.... "Ju-u-ust a bit high... ball".

The whole thing is about your timing. If it's a foot off the plate, I verbalize it, even when it's "clear" that it's not nearly close enough, and the catcher has given up on it. Same for pitches in the dirt. Call 'em all - work the same timing on all of them.

:clap:

[tjthresh]

But you should verbalize it ( and I now do) just enough so that you did... it helps to keep your timing consistent.

This is what I've been taught.

[NovaScotiaBlue]

I have been calling them both since day one. In Canada, the national standard is balls and strikes by the number. If you want to move up to the highest levels you call them that way regardless of if they are way outside or way high

[kcfan102]

It keeps me in the game, most of all. And like Brian said, it also helps with timing. When doing 9 y/o, even the good ones, you'll run into pitcher who can't find the zone.... like not even the same altitude as the zone and just letting them go by without saying anything lets my mind wonder.

Balls and strikes baby.

[softballcoach]

We've got some umpires in our league that, in my opinion, have a bad habit of signaling with their right hand where the ball was, such as high, low or inside/outside. Sometimes, especially on the close high ones or outside it looks from my point of view in the 1BC box that they're signalling a strike.

disclaimer: I said bad habit, because I don't know/think it's a mechanic. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[catoblue]

We've got some umpires in our league that, in my opinion, have a bad habit of signaling with their right hand where the ball was, such as high, low or inside/outside. Sometimes, especially on the close high ones or outside it looks from my point of view in the 1BC box that they're signalling a strike.

disclaimer: I said bad habit, because I don't know/think it's a mechanic. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Not a mechanic I've ever heard. Definitely a bad habit - as is calling out locations. We had this one guy that used to call games at an away field when I was coaching, that used to play-by-play every pitch...

"Low and outside, Ball One"

"Caught the outside corner at the knees, strike one"

"One and one is the count"

High, inside, Ball 2"

" 2 and 1 is the count"

He also used the closed fist over his head to signal a full count with the verbal "full count"

Made me want to walk up to him and slap the mask of his head!!!!!!

[Chance]

If it goes to the backstop, you don't need to have the dugouts hear it - everyone knows.

But you should verbalize it ( and I now do) just enough so that you did... it helps to keep your timing consistent.

I've had them fly 10 feet over - (!) - the thing to do is stay down in the crouch, and after it passes, give it a soft, "Ball".

Sometimes I'll add a bit of Bob Uecker to it.... "Ju-u-ust a bit high... ball".

The whole thing is about your timing. If it's a foot off the plate, I verbalize it, even when it's "clear" that it's not nearly close enough, and the catcher has given up on it. Same for pitches in the dirt. Call 'em all - work the same timing on all of them.

This is the same thing I do, it keeps my timing consistant. Minus the Bob Uecker :clap:

[DirtyDawg]

We've got some umpires in our league that, in my opinion, have a bad habit of signaling with their right hand where the ball was, such as high, low or inside/outside. Sometimes, especially on the close high ones or outside it looks from my point of view in the 1BC box that they're signalling a strike.

disclaimer: I said bad habit, because I don't know/think it's a mechanic. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

It is a very bad habit, one that I struggled with to break. I used to do this because that is the way the umpires used to do when I was playing ball. I now know that a ball, is a ball, is a ball, no matter where it misses the strike zone.

[Umpire in Chief]

Calling or signaling location is a bad habit, you're setting yourself up for failure... You've been calling location all day now comes a great curve which catches you and you just say, "ball"

Coach asks, "Where was that one?"

"Uhhhhh, wellll, uhhh..."

It goes hand in hand with being brief with the coaches, your just giving them the rope to hang you with.

[Big Red]

Calling or signaling location is a bad habit, you're setting yourself up for failure... You've been calling location all day now comes a great curve which catches you and you just say, "ball"

Coach asks, "Where was that one?"

"Uhhhhh, wellll, uhhh..."

It goes hand in hand with being brief with the coaches, your just giving them the rope to hang you with.

Excellent point! I've been BU w/ a couple of guys that do this and I've seen this exact thing happen. One comes in close on a corner, or they get a pitch w/ some real movement, and they vaporlock just saying "Ball" w/o indicating location like all the previous pitches. It really does make them look like they had no clue and in every instance, coaches and usually the fans, raised hell.

And not to steal the thread, but speaking of Uecker...

Gregg Zaun had some "issues" getting the ball back to the pitcher the other night in a scene straight outta "Major League II."

Uecker happened to be a guest in the booth...listen to his tongue-in-cheek explanation at the end!

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=7677663

Edited April 29, 2010 by Big Red

[DirtyDawg]

Not quite as funny as Uecker in Major League II.

[Big Red]

Very true, but how ironic is it that of all the games out there, and of this situation that played out just like the movie, Uecker just happened to be a guest in the booth of this game when it happened?!? A conspiracy I tell ya!

[DirtyDawg]

That is kind of ironic to say the least, but I think that's why it wasn't as funny for me. I mean Uecker, Major League II, he's gotta have something left untapped.

[BrianC14]

Calling or signaling location is a bad habit, you're setting yourself up for failure... You've been calling location all day now comes a great curve which catches you and you just say, "ball"

Coach asks, "Where was that one?"

"Uhhhhh, wellll, uhhh..."

It goes hand in hand with being brief with the coaches, your just giving them the rope to hang you with.

Well, I've been taught fairly recently by the resident big dogs that calling location - JUDICIOUSLY - can be good preventive work.

That's the thing - - if you're verbalizing the location of pitches "all day", then that's going to come back to bite you in the butt, eventually.

I'd bet that I don't "locate" a pitch but 5 or 6 times per game. Now, there's no set formula for it, and you have to be very cognizant (not to mention very confident) in your zone skills, but used judiciously, I have found that I can prevent the "Where was that one?" gripes far more often than not.

But again - if you're a new or relatively inexperienced, or if you're only working the no-shave leagues, I would not advise using this method. The coaches I work for are fairly savvy, and they don't often use the 'Where was that?' question very often, anyway. So again, if you decide to use this, do so judiciously.

[Dragon29]

I don't call location on pitches that miss, but sometimes - especially early in a game if I've called a Ball in the same location say, twice in a row or 3x in an inning that's fairly close to the zone - I'll tell F2 where it missed.

"Tell him to bring it down a couple of inches"

"That was just a bit too far out"

It's not as if he didn't already know, but it seems to make them feel better that I think it's close - Then usually F2 will indicate to F1 what to do and things get better quickly. The batter has also heard me (so it's not like I'm giving an advantage to either side) and is now more ready to swing at those same pitches 'cause he knows I think it's close.

[Guest]

Very true, but how ironic is it that of all the games out there, and of this situation that played out just like the movie, Uecker just happened to be a guest in the booth of this game when it happened?!? A conspiracy I tell ya!

Dynamite drop in Monty! That broadcasting school is really starting to pay off.

:rollinglaugh:

[BrianC14]

I don't call location on pitches that miss, but sometimes - especially early in a game if I've called a Ball in the same location say, twice in a row or 3x in an inning that's fairly close to the zone - I'll tell F2 where it missed.

"Tell him to bring it down a couple of inches"

"That was just a bit too far out"

It's not as if he didn't already know, but it seems to make them feel better that I think it's close - Then usually F2 will indicate to F1 what to do and things get better quickly. The batter has also heard me (so it's not like I'm giving an advantage to either side) and is now more ready to swing at those same pitches 'cause he knows I think it's close.

Personally, I would stay away from that first one... that's a bit too close to coaching. Yes, the batter can hear it, but so what? Your statement is directed to the catcher, and it's advising him of what the pitcher should do.

I think it would come off better if you simply said, "That's up." Keep it simple.

The second one, I see no issue there... but I wouldn't give it a matter of degrees... "too far out"... Just say, "That's off." They'll know when the hit the right spot, because you'll call a strike then.

BTW, an occasional (and savvy) high school batter will turn to me - usually after he's fouled one off, or swung and missed, and asked, "Was that a strike?"

I give them an honest answer. A simple 'Yep' or 'Nope' suffices. They're smart enough to know what that means.

Just my $0.02. YMMV.

[BrianC14]

Very true, but how ironic is it that of all the games out there, and of this situation that played out just like the movie, Uecker just happened to be a guest in the booth of this game when it happened?!? A conspiracy I tell ya!

Did he have his friend Jack with him? :rollinglaugh:

[yawetag]

I don't verbalize "Ball." However, I will quietly say where close pitches are. The catcher hears me, and knows that it was close.

[kwiggie]

Well, I've been taught fairly recently by the resident big dogs that calling location - JUDICIOUSLY - can be good preventive work.

This is what I have been taught as well by the "war-horses" of our leagues. Their take is their is no need to locate a high or low pitch, both benches can get a good enough look at them. On that belt high (when f1 is trying to locate) just off the corner pitch for the 2nd3rd time in an at bat "discretely give a hand signal" as to the location of the ball... indside or out only. As Brian says I have only ever used this maybe 3 or 4 times during any given game, be stingy... my 2 cents.

As far as Uecker being a "guest" to the brodcast booth that night he is going in for some major surgery and will be out of action for a predicted couple of months.

[BrianC14]

This is what I have been taught as well by the "war-horses" of our leagues. Their take is their is no need to locate a high or low pitch, both benches can get a good enough look at them. On that belt high (when f1 is trying to locate) just off the corner pitch for the 2nd3rd time in an at bat "discretely give a hand signal" as to the location of the ball... indside or out only. As Brian says I have only ever used this maybe 3 or 4 times during any given game, be stingy... my 2 cents.

As far as Uecker being a "guest" to the brodcast booth that night he is going in for some major surgery and will be out of action for a predicted couple of months.

I want to be clear on this: I'm not using hand signals to show anyone where a particular pitch might be. Honestly, I don't think hand signals are a good idea at all.

Again, what I've been taught to do and it's used very rarely is this:

Pitch comes in. I see it as a ball. As normal, I stay in my crouch, and verbalize: "Ball! That was down." or "Ball. That was up." , etc.

THEN I come up out of the crouch.

Again - this has to be used very judiciously. It can't be used too often otherwise it becomes a crutch.... and then when they DON'T hear it, they'll just yell, "Where was that?!?" which is the opposite of what you want.

But hand signals? No way. I think those can quickly lead to trouble. It would be like saying "that pitch was 8" off the plate." Really? 8" ? You're that good, huh? It wasn't 7? Or 5? Or maybe 3? See where that goes?

Case in point re: hand signals.

Pitch 1: about 6" off, but just above belt high. F2 sticks and holds. "Ball."

Pitch 2: Nearly the same location, but no further in: F2 sticks and holds again. "Ball." I hear a low grumble from 3B dugout.

Pitch 3: Incredibly - nearly the same spot. Again F2 sticks and holds. "Ball. That's off!"

Now the manager is flummoxed. He walks out about 10-15 feet toward the plate, and asks F2, "Where are those?" And a very stupid F2 stands up, and facing his manager, holds his thumb and index finger about 3" apart.

I say nothing. Yet.

Next batter steps in (after the base on balls) and I gently let him know that each of those pitches were the same spot. If #1 was a ball, so were # 2 and #3, and he if pulls that stunt again, he's going find out real fast what a stingy strike looks like. And mind you - this took place in the SIXTH inning. I hadn't been giving that outside pitch the entire game!

I had no other whines from them.

But I can't stress this enough: verbalizing the location is used very sparingly, and used only when you need it. If someone is using it all the time, I can see where a manager might start wondering if this guy really knows what he's doing.

Edited April 30, 2010 by BrianC14

[kwiggie]

Again, what I've been taught to do and it's used very rarely.

I completely agree!

Pitch comes in. I see it as a ball. As normal, I stay in my crouch, and verbalize: "Ball! That was down." or "Ball. That was up." , etc.

THEN I come up out of the crouch..

Same as I except that I give a discrete inside or out hand signal coming out of the crouch... emphasis on the discrete part!

Again - this has to be used very judiciously. It can't be used too often otherwise it becomes a crutch.....

Again, I completely agree

But hand signals? No way. I think those can quickly lead to trouble. .

What is the difference between vocal or visual communication? other then the fact that vocal includes everyone including the crowd (whom I would like to keep out of the conversation) and a discrete visual will more than likely only involve the bench, who should know what to look for.

Pitch 3: Incredibly - nearly the same spot. Again F2 sticks and holds. "Ball. That's off!".

Why vocalize this? A simple discrete hand signal intended for the benches will suffice.

Now the manager is flummoxed..

Why? his pitcher has been trying to locate and hasn't been able to do so and I let him and the bench know with a non-vocal signal.

Next batter steps in (after the base on balls) and I gently let him know that each of those pitches were the same spot. .

seriously?