My very first ejection. How did I do?

[Tanner]

Well the top two teams were playing. number one team is really nice, two team is always yelling about something. Okay...so there was an incident in the field where someone could have thrown the ball multiple places and the field ump didn't happen to be watching third base when he made the play.

• I was watching it, I just didn't have the angle i could have had if I was in the field, but I had to make a call since he didn't even see it. i called the number 2 team's player out and they went apeSH*#.
• they said if neither of us saw it I should have sent him back to second which is not how baseball works.
• so they kinda went crazy there but I let it slide.

• • this was the second game of the day so the chalk was a little worn and in some spots not even there, but I could distinguish some sort of a batters box apparently the kid had no idea. so the pitcher went on and the kid hit a foul ball with is foot entirely out of the box
  • if it was close I would have let it slide since it was sorta hard to make out, but he had me and the catcher next to the backstop so it was obvious even if he couldn't see the box he should have been up to the plate.
  • anyway I called an illegally batted ball and the batter was out.
  • coaches went ape **** saying i should have drawn a box. even though that is not my job. and it was apparent he was out of the box. two board members and the head umpire came and backed me up and we both told them to just let it go and that what was done was done.
  • anyway the head coach just wouldn't shut up about either calls so i just ejected him.This story might be sorta splotchy... any questions or comments would be appreciated. Thanks

[bpate]

Sounds like youth ball, what age?

[semper_fi_72]

You don't state anything that anyone did to get ej except to argue. He can argue all he wants. It is your job to know how to sit him down and end out.

I also think you were looking to pick buggers by making that call. Don't go looking for trouble.

You may have gotten your first ej but I challenge you to sit down and evaluate what you did and what you could have done to keep him in the game.

I rarely ej and take much more pride in my ability to diffuse sits and keep them in the game

[Mr Umpire]

If he was not legally in the box to begin with, then the pitch should have never been thrown until he was legally in the box. After that, then a pitch can be thrown. But, not until then. Coach has room to argue since the rules were not completely adhered to. But, to a point.

Since board members couldn't get him to stop, it sounds like there is nothing to be done. He was going regardless. If he brought up a previous call, that's grounds for ejection. The past better stay buried in the past.

[umpire9]

You don't state anything that anyone did to get ej except to argue. He can argue all he wants. It is your job to know how to sit him down and end out.

I also think you were looking to pick buggers by making that call. Don't go looking for trouble.

You may have gotten your first ej but I challenge you to sit down and evaluate what you did and what you could have done to keep him in the game.

I rarely ej and take much more pride in my ability to diffuse sits and keep them in the game

It is not your job to keep people in the game. If an umpire has very few ejections (i.e. less than 1 every 100 games worked), that umpire is probably doing something wrong.

A person should get ejected for arguing, if they keep arguing despite being given a warning to stop. If an umpire warns for someone to stop doing something and the person does not stop, the person ejected themselves. I would like to know if the person who posted the thread gave a warning before ejecting.

[NFUA_44]

You don't state anything that anyone did to get ej except to argue. He can argue all he wants. It is your job to know how to sit him down and end out.

I also think you were looking to pick buggers by making that call. Don't go looking for trouble.

You may have gotten your first ej but I challenge you to sit down and evaluate what you did and what you could have done to keep him in the game.

I rarely ej and take much more pride in my ability to diffuse sits and keep them in the game

The bolded section is certainly a great goal to aspire to, but I get the impression that Tanner is a little younger, and less experienced. Developing this ability does take time, just as it takes time to pick up the nuances of when we're picking boogers or not.

Tanner, you have some good input here, keep coming back and posting your experiences, most of the guys around here will take the time to help you through, it is a process, and sooner or later you'll be better off for it. Keep conversations with coaches very limited, give them just the facts, and then make it very clear that the conversation is over, now it's time to move on. Eventually you will start to see the wisdom in what Semper_fi posted for you. Keep it short and fact based, if he continues to want to beat a dead horse from 3 plays ago, give him a warning and then dump him, he might eventually get it.

[MPLSMatt]

It is not your job to keep people in the game. If an umpire has very few ejections (i.e. less than 1 every 100 games worked), that umpire is probably doing something wrong.

A person should get ejected for arguing, if they keep arguing despite being given a warning to stop. If an umpire warns for someone to stop doing something and the person does not stop, the person ejected themselves. I would like to know if the person who posted the thread gave a warning before ejecting.

First, I completely disagree with any ratio. Personally, I average about one every fifty games but I could certainly see a situation in which that doesn't happen. I think that there are plenty of umps out there that don't put up with much and therefor the coaches don't excessively argue - especially when you speak the language (that's enough, we don't talk balls and strikes, etc.) and avoid excessive conflict. Almost all of my ejections are for players popping off not a coach getting out of hand.

All that said, although your story is a bit unclear, as I understand it, there are a few things you could have done. 1) do not let the pitcher pitch until the batter is in the box. I have held the pitcher and told a batter to scoot up many, many times. If it is blatant enough for you to call the batter out, it should be blatant enough for you to move the batter before the pitch. 2) It is acceptable to redraw the back line if you are having problems with batters cheating back too far. Some guys on this board recommend doing it with a bat, some with the foot (I've done it this way). I'm not saying to do this anytime that the line is gone but if you are having trouble with guys creeping back, creating a new line is preferable to starting a sh#t storm (especially for kids). 3) If the line is gone, it's completely conceivable that the batters definition of the back line and yours are different, so you better be 100% sure that you are right and he is wrong before making this call. Again, I'd only make this call after having done suggestion 1 and sometimes 2.

All that said, a questionable (or even bad) doesn't excuse bad behavior, especially at 9U ball, so you had to do what you had to do. Coaches that flip out over 9U are a joke and deserve every ejection that come their way. All of the kids are learning at that age - god forbid an umpire is too.

[semper_fi_72]

I guess my ratio is around 1 for 100 games lol.

Never considered even thinking if my ej ratio had anything with me being a umpire worth my salt...lol

Wait may be it does.

Because I get the calls right and can properly explain them in a professional manner gets me the respect that I don't wind up with pissing contests with coaches.

Most of my ej have been on players and malicious contact is usually the case.

I get the out and the ej and there haven't been any arguments.

Coach this is what I saw, this is the rule and how in applied it. The discussion is over, let's play baseball.

Yes age, experience and professionalism will keep your ratio down lol.

As far as it not being my job to keep them in the game, I disagree.

Remember umpiring is also customer service.

The teams, leagues etc are your customers. Don't you want to give

your customer the best service possible.

I disagree with the us against them mentality when it comes to ejs.

[Tanner]

Sounds like youth ball, what age?

9 Year olds.

[Tanner]

You don't state anything that anyone did to get ej except to argue. He can argue all he wants. It is your job to know how to sit him down and end out.

I also think you were looking to pick buggers by making that call. Don't go looking for trouble.

You may have gotten your first ej but I challenge you to sit down and evaluate what you did and what you could have done to keep him in the game.

I rarely ej and take much more pride in my ability to diffuse sits and keep them in the game

It is not your job to keep people in the game. If an umpire has very few ejections (i.e. less than 1 every 100 games worked), that umpire is probably doing something wrong.

A person should get ejected for arguing, if they keep arguing despite being given a warning to stop. If an umpire warns for someone to stop doing something and the person does not stop, the person ejected themselves. I would like to know if the person who posted the thread gave a warning before ejecting.

Yes I did. When he argued about the first call I said nothing, but I gave him a lot of time to cool down after the illegally batted ball. He just wouldn't stop. I gave him a warning, he kept bringing it up in an angry fashion. I ejected him.

[Tanner]

You don't state anything that anyone did to get ej except to argue. He can argue all he wants. It is your job to know how to sit him down and end out.

I also think you were looking to pick buggers by making that call. Don't go looking for trouble.

You may have gotten your first ej but I challenge you to sit down and evaluate what you did and what you could have done to keep him in the game.

I rarely ej and take much more pride in my ability to diffuse sits and keep them in the game

I never thought I should be looking for trouble, but the call was there. I knew it would make the coaches angry, but doesn't a call still need to be made?

[Tanner]

Thanks guys. I feel like an idiot after messing up that illegally batted ball call.

[Tanner]

I asked another more experienced NCAA umpire pal of mine about the call and he said if he has one foot in the box the pitcher can pitch only when the batter has called time and the umpire has granted it.

[MPLSMatt]

Tanner - I wouldn't say you kicked it, so don't beat yourself up. The suggestions listed are more for preventative officiating than anything else. What your NCAA friend is describing is batter stepping out without time, which he is correct about. That said, I would refrain from letting the batter begin an at bat outside of the box in any situation. To do so reeks of a "gotcha" call which will drive managers mad because it appears (whether true or not) that you were just waiting for a chance to call it so that you could show how smart you are. This is especially true at 9U ball where the kids almost certainly don't know any better. If you are doing college and a guy continually is doing this to try and cheat back to gain an advantage, while knowing the consequences of it, I'd understand the call more (although I guarantee that you'll have the same result with the manager). But with 9 year olds you really have to be proactive. We aren't out there to "get" or "trap" anyone but out there to make sure that the game is played by the rules. In this incidence, you could have ensured that the game was played by the rules prior to the ball being pitched and saved yourself the headache.

All that said, I don' t think that anyone here is saying you were wrong to toss. If he flips out like that and doesn't stop after a warning, he hasn't left you a choice - you gotta toss. If you ask me, this guy is a cancer to the game for arguing multiple calls in 9u and probably has lots of pent up aggression from lack of sex or something - so he had to go. All that we are saying is that you have to learn from the situation that led to it and I think that the lesson here is to be a bit more proactive, especially with youngsters.

[kylejt]

It is not your job to keep people in the game. If an umpire has very few ejections (i.e. less than 1 every 100 games worked), that umpire is probably doing something wrong.

I haven't run anyone in four years, and haven't come close since then, so I guess I've been doing it wrong.

It's all about attitude, and game management. (that, and the amount of respect that you carry with you to the game). Nobody yells at me anymore, not since I was a rookie. I've got a reputation locally, and it's not about about being a tough guy, hard @ss, etc. My rep is that I know the rules, call a fair game and generally have good time doing it. Do I get all the calls right? Heck no. Who does? But it's how you handle the tough situations that sets you apart.

[yawetag]

Completely off-topic, but I love how Tanner censored one profanity but not the other.

[Tanner]

Completely off-topic, but I love how Tanner censored one profanity but not the other.

Haha Yeah, I thought that was interesting too. The forum censored it. not me lol

[umpire9]

It would be nice if players and managers did not take the "us vs. them" mentality. Unfortunately there are games where people chirp, look back at you after a ball/strike call, yell from the mound, give body language, etc. In those cases, you have to shut it down, and eject if it continues. Like you said, age, experience and professionalism keep the ejection totals down. But that does not mean it is the umpire's fault if people choose to get themselves ejected. They are responsible for keeping themselves under control.

[UmpJeff]

"It's all about attitude, and game management. (that, and the amount of respect that you carry with you to the game). Nobody yells at me anymore, not since I was a rookie. I've got a reputation locally, and it's not about about being a tough guy, hard @ss, etc. My rep is that I know the rules, call a fair game and generally have good time doing it. Do I get all the calls right? Heck no. Who does? But it's how you handle the tough situations that sets you apart."

EXACTLY!!! I could have said the exact words. I haven't EJ'd anyone in three years. I also used to officiate Ice Hockey at the collegiate level. Talk about confrontation... That's where I learned to draw the line, keep a cool and clear head, and when it's time to end the "discussion", end the discussion in an authoritative manner. Chances are you'll avoid the sh*tstorm we so often see in Youth games without dumping anybody.

[KyleUmp]

To each their own on how they handle ejections, but some of the advice here is... counter-intuitive. Game management is just as important, if not more important, than rule & mechanics knowledge. Ejections happen and little thought should be put into how many you've had, etc. Every situation is different and mutually exclusive.

Not ejecting a coach/player can be just as bad, if not worse, than being a quick trigger. Most game situations that spiral out-of-control could have been prevented by more effective game management. That game management often times involves an ejection and, when needed, an ejection can actually save a game from getting out of control. This is especially true at the youth level.

[scrounge]

Not ejecting a coach/player can be just as bad, if not worse, than being a quick trigger. Most game situations that spiral out-of-control could have been prevented by more effective game management. That game management often times involves an ejection and, when needed, an ejection can actually save a game from getting out of control. This is especially true at the youth level.

I can certainly echo that, from learning it the hard way. I only had 1 EJ last year out of 108 games, a textbook Ray Fosse-style malicious contact play at the plate. But the one that I SHOULD have had still haunts me to this day. Small-town youth travel, a competitive 11U team with a good-ole-boy manager yapping all game, didn't like an out call and the entire coaching staff converged on me at the plate to loudly argue. Later, another out call and he yells "You were blind on the first one, of course you're blind on this one". And gave him a "final" warning - when the last warning should have been enough. It was only like my 20th game and first really significant showing-up, having had no issues in school ball or other games, so I admit I wasn't ready for the situation and let it go WAY too long. I still think about that game and how I let them get away with way too much - which prob ensured it kept on happening. Not again, though, not again. I'll do everything I can to prevent it, but I won't be a welcome mat like that again.

[johnnyg08]

You'll learn that warnings don't work. 1 warning (if that sometimes), then a dump. As soon as "you" came out of his mouth, he's done for the day. Many coaches charging you....WRONG!

Sounds like you learned from your mistake. Now put it to practice.

[KyleUmp]

Forget the "last warning" business. You were doomed when you let multiple people come out to home plate to argue with you. Sounds like lesson learned and also sounds like you got away with it relatively unscathed.

Anytime I hear a guy telling war stories and they say "I've only had two ejections in 10 years" I picture an umpire who just wears the coaches, wears the players and has absolutely no game management. The idea that no ejections must mean no problems thus a great umpire is falacious. To me it means they aren't managing their games very well. Sure, you can go through a season without dumping somebody, but years? It doesn't happen.

[johnnyg08]

You should never go looking for ejections. However, when a player/manager ejects himself, you must formalize it.

[BT_Blue]

I still remember my first EJ wasnt actually mine. First year umpiring. Talking to the league UIC at the fence back and just to the right of HP. Pitcher warming up throws ball that hits backstop just to my right (I am facing away from the field). UIC tells me "you need to eject the pitcher". I look at him like he is from Mars. Tells me again that I need to EJ F1. I ask how. He tells me to go to the mound and tell the pitcher he is done and tell the coach F1 is done. Was the strangest thing I have had to do on the ball field.

Side Note: I got the head coach two innings later. I did that one on my own.