Check Swing Appeals

[Umpy]

That is what I thought from reading this forum, but today when I mentioned it while talking about a situation, our UIC and another senior umpire were all over me for being mistaken on rules.

[Mr Umpire]

That is what I thought from reading this forum, but today when I mentioned it while talking about a situation, our UIC and another senior umpire were all over me for being mistaken on rules.

If they say a strike can be appealed, then they are mistaken. Once it is called a strike (regardless of why it was called a strike), no appeal is allowed. Strikes cannot be changed to a ball. If someone wants an appeal, simply tell them "No appeal allowed on strike calls".

[kylejt]

That is what I thought from reading this forum, but today when I mentioned it while talking about a situation, our UIC and another senior umpire were all over me for being mistaken on rules.

If they say a strike can be appealed, then they are mistaken.

I'd take this a step further. If you're a UIC, and say that swinging strikes can appealed, "mistaken" is a bit soft. I'd tilt toward ignorant. If you're a UIC, or senior umpire, and think that's proper, Umpy, you're in with a bunch of rookies.

[dumbdumb]

I always say to always check. There are situations not to check. If you have watched the Williamsport tournament the Japanese team will ask on every flinch in every game. When you ask that many times then I am going to start picking when I ask. When I am on the plate and I am sure that he didn't go, I will announce it to that effect with a strong,"No he didn't go!" It is to stop asking when it isn't needed.

All well and good because they know you in your area. However, what if, they keep asking after you say, no he didn't go and it is not LL where apparently you have the option, like in sdix00's case or your own example with the Japanese. What can you legally by rule do to stop them from asking on every check swing whether they just do it naturally, or to jerk you around, probably due to the way they feel you are calling the game and to spite you.

[kylejt]

I always say to always check. There are situations not to check. If you have watched the Williamsport tournament the Japanese team will ask on every flinch in every game. When you ask that many times then I am going to start picking when I ask. When I am on the plate and I am sure that he didn't go, I will announce it to that effect with a strong,"No he didn't go!" It is to stop asking when it isn't needed.

What can you legally by rule do to stop them from asking on every check swing....

Eject them for unsportsmanlike conduct, if the requests are numerous and silly. That usually does the trick.

Look, I've got no trouble asking on any sort of flinch by the batter. None. But is someone is just trying to goof on me, I've got tools to deal with it. We all do.

[yawetag]

Eject them for unsportsmanlike conduct, if the requests are numerous and silly. That usually does the trick.

Look, I've got no trouble asking on any sort of flinch by the batter. None. But is someone is just trying to goof on me, I've got tools to deal with it. We all do.

I hope this is sarcasm.

[kylejt]

Eject them for unsportsmanlike conduct, if the requests are numerous and silly. That usually does the trick.

Look, I've got no trouble asking on any sort of flinch by the batter. None. But is someone is just trying to goof on me, I've got tools to deal with it. We all do.

I hope this is sarcasm.

Sorta.

If they're semi-ligit requests, grant them.

But if a guy is asking over and over, when the batter doesn't even twitch, just becuase he wants to be a jackball about a call three innings ago, get rid of him. That's what I meant.

[NWA_UMP]

Eject them for unsportsmanlike conduct, if the requests are numerous and silly. That usually does the trick.

Look, I've got no trouble asking on any sort of flinch by the batter. None. But is someone is just trying to goof on me, I've got tools to deal with it. We all do.

I hope this is sarcasm.

Sorta.

If they're semi-ligit requests, grant them.

But if a guy is asking over and over, when the batter doesn't even twitch, just because he wants to be a jackball about a call three innings ago, get rid of him. That's what I meant.

Kyle-

I would absolutely love to work a double header with you! I have a feeling it would be a moment that would last in my memory banks until I die! I'm sure I would not only have a good time...but learn a little along the way as well... :nod:

[Texarkana]

A couple of things here. In pregame, I cover with my partner on check swings. I try to alleviate problems and will ask when requested. I tell my partner that if I just point, I am sure in my mind what I called but if I ask LOUDLY and point "Did he go?" I am truly asking. I was always taught not to ask my partner in c on a righty but TASO actually put out a letter that contradicted that. It is still hard for old dogs to learn new tricks.

On a more lighter note, we were in the 3-A playoffs this year, I am behind the plate on 4 man crew. Stadium is packed. Lefty is up and I checked with the 1b ump. Just because I was a bonehead he was thinking on his feet, pointed over to the 3b ump and asked. We had a real good laugh after the game. To be honest, it happened so fast it looked pretty good. Thank God for great partners.

I think with the Japanese situation I would probably act like some of the Hispanics do in Texas and act like I did not understand what they were saying.

[yawetag]

I tell my partner that if I just point, I am sure in my mind what I called but if I ask LOUDLY and point "Did he go?" I am truly asking.

When is there a time you aren't truly asking?

[noumpere]

I tell my partner that if I just point, I am sure in my mind what I called but if I ask LOUDLY and point "Did he go?" I am truly asking.

Thats a very old school approach and one that has been mostly discredited in the areas I have been. If you ask then you get an honest answer and theres none of this I will agree with you sometimes and give you an honest answer other times stuff.

[Texarkana]

I tell my partner that if I just point, I am sure in my mind what I called but if I ask LOUDLY and point "Did he go?" I am truly asking.

When is there a time you aren't truly asking?

As I said in my post,if I am sure but a coach is barking loudly I will point at my partner. This is not to ask. This is to appease the coach and show some respect. If he checked and I am not sure, that is when I point and ask LOUDLY if he went. I am asking for my partners help in this case. In scenario one, I am only asking my partner (the only friend I have on the field) to cover my back and help move it on to the next pitch.

[Umpire in Chief]

I want a honest response, what is the worse that's going to happen -- You'll get another strike??? It's a no lose situation.

I don't let my partner call my game for me, but if requested I'll go in a heartbeat. I actually appealed to my partner on a check swing tonight. Unfortunately I was correct so no strike for me.

[yawetag]

As I said in my post,if I am sure but a coach is barking loudly I will point at my partner. This is not to ask. This is to appease the coach and show some respect. If he checked and I am not sure, that is when I point and ask LOUDLY if he went. I am asking for my partners help in this case. In scenario one, I am only asking my partner (the only friend I have on the field) to cover my back and help move it on to the next pitch.

Do you not trust your partner to give the right call? Just ask. If you know he didn't go, do you really expect your partner to overturn that anyway? As UIC, said, the worst that can happen is you get another strike.

If you did this to me, I'd bang a close one that you were "sure" about.

[Texarkana]

As I said in my post,if I am sure but a coach is barking loudly I will point at my partner. This is not to ask. This is to appease the coach and show some respect. If he checked and I am not sure, that is when I point and ask LOUDLY if he went. I am asking for my partners help in this case. In scenario one, I am only asking my partner (the only friend I have on the field) to cover my back and help move it on to the next pitch.

Do you not trust your partner to give the right call? Just ask. If you know he didn't go, do you really expect your partner to overturn that anyway? As UIC, said, the worst that can happen is you get another strike.

If you did this to me, I'd bang a close one that you were "sure" about.

Guess it must be a geographical thing. Very common in my area for partners to work together. When I am calling with a guy with the same skill set and experience, it is NEVER a problem. Go out with a guy that is just starting and you are mentoring you may get a surprise.

I am curious about the comment "If you did this to me?" I would bang one you were sure about.

Did what? Have you cover my back with a sqwacking coach?Goodumps never "do anything" to make there partners look bad. I know a few through the years that have and they end up living a pretty lonely life because no one will call with them. I was in a horrible situation this year when we had a collision at third base with a kid coming in. Runner did nothing wrong but the 3b ended up with his bone sticking out of his leg. Stadium went nuts as did the coach, fans and everyone who supported the kid and the school. My partner makes the decision not to toss the kid (runner) and it got real Texas mean real New York quick. What I thought or felt did not matter. My partner made the decision not to toss him and I BACKED HIM 100% In our chapter if you do anything to show another umpire up, it is cianora and it should be.

[LMSANS]

As I said in my post,if I am sure but a coach is barking loudly I will point at my partner. This is not to ask. This is to appease the coach and show some respect. If he checked and I am not sure, that is when I point and ask LOUDLY if he went. I am asking for my partners help in this case. In scenario one, I am only asking my partner (the only friend I have on the field) to cover my back and help move it on to the next pitch.

Do you not trust your partner to give the right call? Just ask. If you know he didn't go, do you really expect your partner to overturn that anyway? As UIC, said, the worst that can happen is you get another strike.

If you did this to me, I'd bang a close one that you were "sure" about.

Guess it must be a geographical thing. Very common in my area for partners to work together. When I am calling with a guy with the same skill set and experience, it is NEVER a problem. Go out with a guy that is just starting and you are mentoring you may get a surprise.

I am curious about the comment "If you did this to me?" I would bang one you were sure about.

Did what? Have you cover my back with a sqwacking coach?Goodumps never "do anything" to make there partners look bad. I know a few through the years that have and they end up living a pretty lonely life because no one will call with them. I was in a horrible situation this year when we had a collision at third base with a kid coming in. Runner did nothing wrong but the 3b ended up with his bone sticking out of his leg. Stadium went nuts as did the coach, fans and everyone who supported the kid and the school. My partner makes the decision not to toss the kid (runner) and it got real Texas mean real New York quick. What I thought or felt did not matter. My partner made the decision not to toss him and I BACKED HIM 100% In our chapter if you do anything to show another umpire up, it is cianora and it should be.

You're not talking about working together.

You're talking about not allowing your partner to make the call he sees.

[timmybloops]

As I said in my post,if I am sure but a coach is barking loudly I will point at my partner. This is not to ask. This is to appease the coach and show some respect. If he checked and I am not sure, that is when I point and ask LOUDLY if he went. I am asking for my partners help in this case. In scenario one, I am only asking my partner (the only friend I have on the field) to cover my back and help move it on to the next pitch.

Do you not trust your partner to give the right call? Just ask. If you know he didn't go, do you really expect your partner to overturn that anyway? As UIC, said, the worst that can happen is you get another strike.

If you did this to me, I'd bang a close one that you were "sure" about.

Guess it must be a geographical thing. Very common in my area for partners to work together. When I am calling with a guy with the same skill set and experience, it is NEVER a problem. Go out with a guy that is just starting and you are mentoring you may get a surprise.

I am curious about the comment "If you did this to me?" I would bang one you were sure about.

Did what? Have you cover my back with a sqwacking coach?Goodumps never "do anything" to make there partners look bad. I know a few through the years that have and they end up living a pretty lonely life because no one will call with them. I was in a horrible situation this year when we had a collision at third base with a kid coming in. Runner did nothing wrong but the 3b ended up with his bone sticking out of his leg. Stadium went nuts as did the coach, fans and everyone who supported the kid and the school. My partner makes the decision not to toss the kid (runner) and it got real Texas mean real New York quick. What I thought or felt did not matter. My partner made the decision not to toss him and I BACKED HIM 100% In our chapter if you do anything to show another umpire up, it is cianora and it should be.

But you backed him 100% on a call you say was correct to begin with ("runner did nothing wrong"). If in your opinion it was MC by the runner, would you at least have wanted to have a conversation with your partner?

Getting back to the check swing, I have never understood why some at times don't want whatever call their partner gives. Even if their partner is in a tough position to get a good look, and it will be tougher for them to call a swing, what is the harm in asking? You have to trust that he knows he is in the C position (for example) and he will make his call accordingly.

[noumpere]

Goodumps never "do anything" to make there partners look bad.

I agree with this statement but your making your partner look bad and making yourself look bad by using this signal to have him not properly rule on your check swing call.

I understand that it might be common in your area and that sometimes you need to follow that but its been widely discredited in most other areas and your organization should follow the trend, imo.

[zm1283]

Coaches and players have figured out the signaling/waiting/etc on check swings. It is a thing of the past. Just go to your partner when asked and let them give you what they have.

[mstaylor]

Both the secret signal thing and not asking in the middle are both old school mechanics. I was taught the same thing when I started but have since been taught to just ask and let your partner do his job. If he calls it a strike then that's another strike. If he doesn't then nothing changed. It has nothing to do with anybody making any other look bad or not supporting your partner, it has to do wth using current mechanics as taught by NFHS,NCAA and MLB.