offering help when you think you shouldn't?

[1dumbquestion]

the sitch: 3rd out is a banger at 3rd, my BU is somewhat straightlined and as the D is clearing the field the 3BC/manager askes if he can go for help... so here he comes right down to me as PU (I had great angle as he was the last runner and I had him safe by a mile). So i give him what I have and he makes the change... you can imagine what happens next. I know there are two schools of thought on going for help and I'm really not looking to battle on the "get it right no matter what" VS "live and die with your call" debate. My question is IF your partner comes for help (I almost wish he would have told the coach he didn't need help) and you know that change might start WWIII do you give him what you have or do you have nothing to offer? As always, thanks, 1

[Mr Umpire]

the sitch: 3rd out is a banger at 3rd, my BU is somewhat straightlined and as the D is clearing the field the 3BC/manager askes if he can go for help... so here he comes right down to me as PU (I had great angle as he was the last runner and I had him safe by a mile). So i give him what I have and he makes the change... you can imagine what happens next. I know there are two schools of thought on going for help and I'm really not looking to battle on the "get it right no matter what" VS "live and die with your call" debate. My question is IF your partner comes for help (I almost wish he would have told the coach he didn't need help) and you know that change might start WWIII do you give him what you have or do you have nothing to offer? As always, thanks, 1

Nothing to offer. I had that last night. My BU made his call. They question it and he points to me. As soon as I realize he is not asking about a pulled foot, I signal safe as well though I had him out by almost a full step. I just didn't want to waste time walking out to him and explaining that I have nothing to offer. I just signaled and went on with the game.

They asked me if he was asking about a pulled foot. I also told them it wasn't my call b/c they thought I didn't see it. I told the coach it was his call and I was not overruling it. So, I give no info when it is just a matter of judgment or who they think has the best angle on the play. If he is not going to make his calls and get into position for them, give me the money and go home.

[spiritump]

the sitch: 3rd out is a banger at 3rd, my BU is somewhat straightlined and as the D is clearing the field the 3BC/manager askes if he can go for help... so here he comes right down to me as PU (I had great angle as he was the last runner and I had him safe by a mile). So i give him what I have and he makes the change... you can imagine what happens next. I know there are two schools of thought on going for help and I'm really not looking to battle on the "get it right no matter what" VS "live and die with your call" debate. My question is IF your partner comes for help (I almost wish he would have told the coach he didn't need help) and you know that change might start WWIII do you give him what you have or do you have nothing to offer? As always, thanks, 1

If your partner comes to you give him what you have--he shoiuld come to you quickly because of the third out--but always give what you have.

[jjb]

I'm with Spirit: if he comes to me, I'm giving him what I have: our/safe/beats me, doesn't make any difference. What sense does it make, if he kicks a call (in my mind), and I compound the mistake by backing his (blown) call? If i've got nothing, I'll tell my partner I've got nothing: it's up to him what to do with it. Signalling "safe" tells everybody you've got him safe. Trying to answer follow-up questions by the coach just gets you in deeper.

[carolinablue]

LL Jr. game last night, good close game. Before the game my partner tells me he does not pivot from A-Pos. he waits till the runner passes 1B to come in. I immediately tell him that was not a good idea and he was going to be behind the play and get burnt. Apparently he works mostly small diamond games ( although I pivot on the small diamond too ), and apparentley it went in one ear and out the other because he did not pivot the entire game. Needless to say he made some bad calls and they were on him a little. I was having a good game behind the plate.

5th inning, very close game R1. There was a very close pick off play. It looked to me as if the F3 caught the ball with his glove on R1's body as he was diving back in, probably out, but my partner called safe. DC starts chirping come on that's not even close can you get help on it. I was thinking don't do it, but yes he looked straight at me and pointed.

I just gave a safe call as I was mumbling some bad things under my breath and listening to all the chirping from the dugout and stands. If I had to make the call from behind the plate, I had out but there was no way I was going to reverse a call from there.

[yawetag]

LL Jr. game last night, good close game. Before the game my partner tells me he does not pivot from A-Pos. he waits till the runner passes 1B to come in.

In my first year, I was given ZERO training on positioning. The night before (I had one night between "I'll umpire for you" and my first game), I found a document of two-man mechanics online. It had the BU in A-position take a turn around 1B for an extra-base hit. In other words, you would come down the line in foul ground, swinging into basically the coach's box to get away from the runner, then rotate into fair as the runner touches 1B. Luckily these were younger kids, so I was able to keep up. It wasn't until later in the season that I realized I was doing it wrong.

[mstaylor]

If I have a partner come to me in a situation where he shouldn't, I will get together and have a conversation. As a trainer this happens more than I would like so I have experience. The conversation goes like this.

Me: What do you have?

Partner: I have a tag.

Me: I saw daylight or it was late. You can do what you want with it but it will be your argument. You can change it or not but that is up to you.

OR

Partner: I have daylight, no tag.

Me: Looked like a tag to me but it is up to you. If you saw air between them I have nothing to change it.

Either way he decides what to do and he will take whatever heat there is. If the coach comes to me he will get a very short 11.03g ruling. I will have a conversation on what he did wrong in the parking lot. Also, how to avoid it in the future.

[noumpere]

the sitch: 3rd out is a banger at 3rd, my BU is somewhat straightlined and as the D is clearing the field the 3BC/manager askes if he can go for help... so here he comes right down to me as PU (I had great angle as he was the last runner and I had him safe by a mile). So i give him what I have and he makes the change... you can imagine what happens next. I know there are two schools of thought on going for help and I'm really not looking to battle on the "get it right no matter what" VS "live and die with your call" debate. My question is IF your partner comes for help (I almost wish he would have told the coach he didn't need help) and you know that change might start WWIII do you give him what you have or do you have nothing to offer? As always, thanks, 1

I always answer with this isnt something you can get help on.

[HokieUmp]

Hijacking the thread slightly - there were two different posts here where the author says that his partner came to him for help by pointing to him....

What the hell is THAT? Is this some kind of new trend of which I'm unaware? If it doesn't have a name, I think I would call it the "Hiding from controversy by throwing my partner under the bus" mechanic.

I'm not saying one doesn't talk to one's partner, but holy frejoles, at least go get together instead of pointing at the other guy from across the field and hoping not to get yelled at.

(Mr Umpire and carolinablue, this of course isn't directed at you, since you were the victims of the 'drive-by pointing.')

[Dragon29]

I must say I'm a little surprised at some of the guys saying they'd do anything other than to give their partner what they had. We're a team out there - if I can't trust you to tell the truth, who can I trust?

Now, in the OP sitch, I'd tell my partner what I had -BUT- depending upon how long the manager took to make his initial request to him, I might also advise he consider the delay before changing the call. In other words, I had him safe, but it's still your call and still your s#!tstorm to deal with if/when you change it.

I think the real question here is, if you're the BU in this situation, do you go for help (when you think you could use it) if the manager comes to you so late?

[Mr Umpire]

Hijacking the thread slightly - there were two different posts here where the author says that his partner came to him for help by pointing to him....

What the hell is THAT? Is this some kind of new trend of which I'm unaware? If it doesn't have a name, I think I would call it the "Hiding from controversy by throwing my partner under the bus" mechanic.

I'm not saying one doesn't talk to one's partner, but holy frejoles, at least go get together instead of pointing at the other guy from across the field and hoping not to get yelled at.

(Mr Umpire and carolinablue, this of course isn't directed at you, since you were the victims of the 'drive-by pointing.')

And, get this. After that game, I had another one (who did it twice in one game) on Saturday with a different partner. If it is a trend, I don't want to have any part in it.

The first was about F3 missing 1B on an initial attempt but getting it on the 2nd one. He called safe and pointed after the coach questioned it. I went to him on that since I did have F3 touching 1B since it had nothing to do with the timing of things. But, he handled it poorly after the little meeting. Again, it was not about timing but whether the base was missed on the 2nd attempt since he was in B position.

The second was about a timing issue in which he called out. And, instead of going to him to tell him it is his called, I simply signaled out.

[Mr Umpire]

Sorry, but if it is anything other than a pulled foot or ball on the ground question, I have nothing to say. And, it won't be his s@!tstorm once the call is changed (if it is). It will become mine for no good reason. The first thing out of a coach's mouth will be "How can you (me) make that call?". You are 90 ft away and he is less than 30 (hopefully).

So, I have to ask. Whose judgment is correct (his or yours)? If you can't answer that question, then why give any info which he might use and change it to (possibly) an incorrect call? He has his job/responsibilities and I have mine. If he isn't going to do it correctly, then why is he out there? We are a team to help in situations which involve rule calls, not judgment if there is no rule violation occurring. Calling an out for a ball on the ground is a rule violation IMO and is fine. As well as a pulled foot. But, who got to the base first or what order of events occurred first is purely judgment and thus falls on the one whose responsibility it is to handle that judgment. It is not mine as PU to handle a judgment call at 3B if it is a steal of 3B or the BR going to 3B. I might as well be a solo team if it is.

I understand it is a fine line and some things fall on one side for a play and on the other for another. But, I don't think this is one of them. If he has the runner out, the runner is out regardless of what I think of the play. We'll talk about it when it has no bearing on any play at that time. Then, he gets what I have on it. Otherwise, I have nothing to add b/c it is not my responsibility and he may learn to handle it better when we talk about it later. Also, he may be correct and I may not be.

Baseball is a game of angles. Whose angle is correct? His or yours? No cut and dry answer so it will always be his for me.

[Mr Umpire]

I just gave a safe call as I was mumbling some bad things under my breath and listening to all the chirping from the dugout and stands. If I had to make the call from behind the plate, I had out but there was no way I was going to reverse a call from there.

I did the same thing.

[Dragon29]

Sorry, but if it is anything other than a pulled foot or ball on the ground question, I have nothing to say.

So, you're telling us that if you actually do have information for him that could lead him to changing his call, you'd say nothing? Really?

And, it won't be his s@!tstorm once the call is changed (if it is). It will become mine for no good reason. The first thing out of a coach's mouth will be "How can you (me) make that call?". You are 90 ft away and he is less than 30 (hopefully).

I disagree - it's still your partner's call - Send the coach to him or the parking lot, depending upon how he reacts when you tell him you're not going to discuss it with him

So, I have to ask. Whose judgment is correct (his or yours)? If you can't answer that question, then why give any info which he might use and change it to (possibly) an incorrect call? He has his job/responsibilities and I have mine. If he isn't going to do it correctly, then why is he out there? We are a team to help in situations which involve rule calls, not judgment if there is no rule violation occurring. Calling an out for a ball on the ground is a rule violation IMO and is fine. As well as a pulled foot. But, who got to the base first or what order of events occurred first is purely judgment and thus falls on the one whose responsibility it is to handle that judgment. It is not mine as PU to handle a judgment call at 3B if it is a steal of 3B or the BR going to 3B. I might as well be a solo team if it is.

I understand it is a fine line and some things fall on one side for a play and on the other for another. But, I don't think this is one of them. If he has the runner out, the runner is out regardless of what I think of the play. We'll talk about it when it has no bearing on any play at that time. Then, he gets what I have on it. Otherwise, I have nothing to add b/c it is not my responsibility and he may learn to handle it better when we talk about it later. Also, he may be correct and I may not be.

Baseball is a game of angles. Whose angle is correct? His or yours? No cut and dry answer so it will always be his for me.

Whose judgment is correct? Who had a better angle? What kind of play or call is it? Whose call is it? While all of these things are (extremely!) important, IMHO they're immaterial to the question at hand which is - What you would tell your partner if he did come to you in a situation like this? Doing anything other than telling him what you have (including telling him you've got nothing, which is likely) is doing him a disservice. Don't get me wrong - we're going to have a talk after the game about this 'mechanic', but I 'd respond on the field as if everything was as it should be and honestly don't understand why anyone would do differently.

[Mr Umpire]

Sorry, but if it is anything other than a pulled foot or ball on the ground question, I have nothing to say.

So, you're telling us that if you actually do have information for him that could lead him to changing his call, you'd say nothing? Really?

And, it won't be his s@!tstorm once the call is changed (if it is). It will become mine for no good reason. The first thing out of a coach's mouth will be "How can you (me) make that call?". You are 90 ft away and he is less than 30 (hopefully).

I disagree - it's still your partner's call - Send the coach to him or the parking lot, depending upon how he reacts when you tell him you're not going to discuss it with him

So, I have to ask. Whose judgment is correct (his or yours)? If you can't answer that question, then why give any info which he might use and change it to (possibly) an incorrect call? He has his job/responsibilities and I have mine. If he isn't going to do it correctly, then why is he out there? We are a team to help in situations which involve rule calls, not judgment if there is no rule violation occurring. Calling an out for a ball on the ground is a rule violation IMO and is fine. As well as a pulled foot. But, who got to the base first or what order of events occurred first is purely judgment and thus falls on the one whose responsibility it is to handle that judgment. It is not mine as PU to handle a judgment call at 3B if it is a steal of 3B or the BR going to 3B. I might as well be a solo team if it is.

I understand it is a fine line and some things fall on one side for a play and on the other for another. But, I don't think this is one of them. If he has the runner out, the runner is out regardless of what I think of the play. We'll talk about it when it has no bearing on any play at that time. Then, he gets what I have on it. Otherwise, I have nothing to add b/c it is not my responsibility and he may learn to handle it better when we talk about it later. Also, he may be correct and I may not be.

Baseball is a game of angles. Whose angle is correct? His or yours? No cut and dry answer so it will always be his for me.

Whose judgment is correct? Who had a better angle? What kind of play or call is it? Whose call is it? While all of these things are (extremely!) important, IMHO they're immaterial to the question at hand which is - What you would tell your partner if he did come to you in a situation like this? Doing anything other than telling him what you have (including telling him you've got nothing, which is likely) is doing him a disservice. Don't get me wrong - we're going to have a talk after the game about this 'mechanic', but I 'd respond on the field as if everything was as it should be and honestly don't understand why anyone would do differently.

Every bit correct. The disservice is to the game if he does change his call based on what he is told since it was not what he "had" on the play. He is there to make a call based on what he "sees". If he isn't doing that, he is the one who is doing a disservice to the game, not me.

And, you will be looking like the bad guy when you have to toss a coach. Again, it won't come on him b/c they will all "know" who made that reverse call. Doesn't matter who signaled the change. Talking about it later won't change the fact or opinions of the one who caused a call to be changed and had to be the one who ejected the coach. Again, perception is everything and it won't be directed at your partner. Remember, this isn't dealing with coaches who know how things work usually. B/c, if we were dealing with that, then (hopefully) the umpires will know how things work usually.

[JaxRolo]

I don't want a partner that won't help me if I ask for help!

You are a team out there. I don't give a crap what some coach or fan think about me. We are there to make the correct call.

Shame On you guys that only care about yourselves.

[carolinablue]

IMO, when a guy has good position on a call and makes it and a coach questions it and he points to his partner who had horrible position, that's not asking for help that's throwing him under the bus. What is he supposed to do, change the call. Is that fair to the other team. Are you going to do it again on the next banger. If he didn't see the play well he could at least conference with you instead of just pointing for you to make the call.

If my partner tells me that he didn't see a play well for whatever reason, I can understand that and will give him what I saw, good position or not, but that is not what I am talking about. You can tell when someone legitamately needs help and when they are letting a coach influence them into doing something they shouldn't.

Jax, I can tell your a good umpire from what you post on here. Somehow I can't imagine you pointing to me to make a call on a pick off play when I'm behind the plate.

[dddunn3d]

This one still haunts me, from eight years ago....

R3, I'm BU in C: the field is very dry and dusty, but no wind. This is a late afternoon game (read sun low on the horizon).

R3 takes a little too much lead and F2 snaps off a throw. R3 lunges back to the bag, F5 gloves the throw and lunges towards R3. I get a couple of steps and an angle and I see: a huge cloud of dust back-lit by the red glow of the setting sun. When I say huge, I mean at least 15' long and 8' tall. I can't see the runner, the fielder, the bag, the third base coach, about half of the dugout, etc. They could have been dancing for all I know, because I had absolutely zero visibility.

PU came up the line as much as he could get; I look straight at him, catch his eye, and then ask "What did you see?" He signaled safe, and I parroted the call.

[NFUA_44]

And, it won't be his s@!tstorm once the call is changed (if it is). It will become mine for no good reason. The first thing out of a coach's mouth will be "How can you (me) make that call?". You are 90 ft away and he is less than 30 (hopefully).

I disagree - it's still your partner's call - Send the coach to him or the parking lot, depending upon how he reacts when you tell him you're not going to discuss it with him

So, I have to ask. Whose judgment is correct (his or yours)? If you can't answer that question, then why give any info which he might use and change it to (possibly) an incorrect call? He has his job/responsibilities and I have mine. If he isn't going to do it correctly, then why is he out there? We are a team to help in situations which involve rule calls, not judgment if there is no rule violation occurring. Calling an out for a ball on the ground is a rule violation IMO and is fine. As well as a pulled foot. But, who got to the base first or what order of events occurred first is purely judgment and thus falls on the one whose responsibility it is to handle that judgment. It is not mine as PU to handle a judgment call at 3B if it is a steal of 3B or the BR going to 3B. I might as well be a solo team if it is.

I understand it is a fine line and some things fall on one side for a play and on the other for another. But, I don't think this is one of them. If he has the runner out, the runner is out regardless of what I think of the play. We'll talk about it when it has no bearing on any play at that time. Then, he gets what I have on it. Otherwise, I have nothing to add b/c it is not my responsibility and he may learn to handle it better when we talk about it later. Also, he may be correct and I may not be.

Baseball is a game of angles. Whose angle is correct? His or yours? No cut and dry answer so it will always be his for me.

Whose judgment is correct? Who had a better angle? What kind of play or call is it? Whose call is it? While all of these things are (extremely!) important, IMHO they're immaterial to the question at hand which is - What you would tell your partner if he did come to you in a situation like this? Doing anything other than telling him what you have (including telling him you've got nothing, which is likely) is doing him a disservice. Don't get me wrong - we're going to have a talk after the game about this 'mechanic', but I 'd respond on the field as if everything was as it should be and honestly don't understand why anyone would do differently.

Every bit correct. The disservice is to the game if he does change his call based on what he is told since it was not what he "had" on the play. He is there to make a call based on what he "sees". If he isn't doing that, he is the one who is doing a disservice to the game, not me.

And, you will be looking like the bad guy when you have to toss a coach. Again, it won't come on him b/c they will all "know" who made that reverse call. Doesn't matter who signaled the change. Talking about it later won't change the fact or opinions of the one who caused a call to be changed and had to be the one who ejected the coach. Again, perception is everything and it won't be directed at your partner. Remember, this isn't dealing with coaches who know how things work usually. B/c, if we were dealing with that, then (hopefully) the umpires will know how things work usually.

+1 and well said Mr Umpire.

Jax, I don't think any of us would want to work with someone not willing to provide help. I think if you study what Mr Umpire has said, you will find it is the thinking of many old and wise umpires. There is a huge difference between "helping" your partner to understand something that happened on the field, and helping to contribute to his delinquency so to speak.

At some point in this thread there is talk about a partner who wants to point and essentially roll you up under the bus on what amounts to his call. Offering something in that scenario doesn't help to resolve the problem down the road. That person needs to understand how the system of getting help from a partner works.

Keep it simple. Call gets "missed" but the Umpire does his job and makes his own call. Coach isn't happy and is jumping up and down about him getting help. Instead of escalating things by dumping it onto someone who has other responsibilities during the play, take a quick second or two to get the coach to come over to you and clarify what he wants. If you think you missed it, or may have missed something, tell him you'll conference with your partner. Now you have the opportunity to calm him down and go see what a partner may or may not have. At that point you can get things back on track, and make the appropriate adjustment if needed.

I have seen way to many younger guys coming in who will go for help on anything. From when it's truly needed on a pulled foot, to a banger at 1st and anything inbetween. There is a huge difference between making the right call, and just getting it right. My judgment isn't yours, nor the coaches or my partners. If I can't use my own judgment 99% of the time on a ball field, I would need to retire. Take the time to pick the brains of the old dudes in your association, you'll get some great stories, and learn many great lessons.

[mstaylor]

Guys, there is no bigger naysayer to getting together for no reason than me, but if you are working with an untrained or inexperienced partner sometimes you will get crap spilled on you that wouldn't happen with a trained partner. In this case, if I was on the bases there is no way under God's green Earth am I going for help. However, there are times that that new guy is going to come to you in a horrible situation. Get off to the side and then give him what you have. If you definitively know one way or the other, tell him. If you aren't sure then tell him that.

After the game then talk to him, explain the importance of proper position, good timing and the need to get his own calls. Go through the list of times to get together and explain why other times it's bad.

The important thing is to give him what you have, safe/out or nothing. Also tell him to take the heat if he changes the call. Now that may not happen so do what is needed to control the game. As far as the coach or fans being mad at me, what do I care. If I was worried about that I wouldn't umpire.

[JaxRolo]

A little common sense goes a long way.

One of the things I cover on pre game is I tell my partner never to point at me. If he has a question let's get together .

[Mr Umpire]

A little common sense goes a long way.

One of the things I cover on pre game is I tell my partner never to point at me. If he has a question let's get together .

I may have to start this. I have had this with 2 partners in the last week.

[LMSANS]

If my partner points to me, I call him over.

[Mr Umpire]

I don't want a partner that won't help me if I ask for help!

You are a team out there. I don't give a crap what some coach or fan think about me. We are there to make the correct call.

Shame On you guys that only care about yourselves.

Not at all what is being said. I'll help where help is warranted. Pulled foot, dropped ball, ask what could have been done to prevent the issue (after the game). But, whether the tag was first or the hand to the bag was first, I have nothing to help on. If it is the other umpire's call, then he makes it. And, yes, we are out there to get it correct. The "it" part is about the mechanics of umpiring. Calls are missed based on what the umpire "sees" all the time. That is of no consequence to me b/c it comes with the game. And, who says what I see is correct either.

If this is the way it is going to be, why have more than 1 umpire or why make a call at all? Might as well let the play develop with umpires at the different angles. Then, if it is a banger or difficult play, call Time, go to your partner to see what he has. Then, someone make a call. It won't matter who b/c both have input on it. Someone just make the call. It is the equivalent of what others in this thread are saying to do for those umpires who don't want to actually make a decision. If you send them back to stand by their call, they will learn a lesson one way or the other. Then, after the game, they will learn more.

May not care what the coaches and fans think about you, but your assignor will care about how you and your partner handled a situation. Remember, you are a "team" out there. If they feel that neither one of you can handle a situation, you don't get higher games. I think too many are reading these as if it is the coaches' or fans' perception to be worried about. Who cares about them as long as they don't get out of control over it. If you send him back to handle his own, he'll get to move up b/c he becomes better after things like this. You do b/c you made a bad situation into a well handled one and helped your partner to get better.

It is very simple. Each umpire has a job out there. Get your partner to do his while you do yours. If you are going to do his as well, why is he there? Why did you accept a game with more than 1 umpire? If he is untrained, help him to get better by letting him deal with a situation he created to see how he handles it. And, help him after the game to prevent it in the future. Provide some training after the game.

Adversity makes one better. "Passing the buck" helps no one.

[mstaylor]

I don't want a partner that won't help me if I ask for help!

You are a team out there. I don't give a crap what some coach or fan think about me. We are there to make the correct call.

Shame On you guys that only care about yourselves.

Not at all what is being said. I'll help where help is warranted. Pulled foot, dropped ball, ask what could have been done to prevent the issue (after the game). But, whether the tag was first or the hand to the bag was first, I have nothing to help on. If it is the other umpire's call, then he makes it. And, yes, we are out there to get it correct. The "it" part is about the mechanics of umpiring. Calls are missed based on what the umpire "sees" all the time. That is of no consequence to me b/c it comes with the game. And, who says what I see is correct either.

If this is the way it is going to be, why have more than 1 umpire or why make a call at all? Might as well let the play develop with umpires at the different angles. Then, if it is a banger or difficult play, call Time, go to your partner to see what he has. Then, someone make a call. It won't matter who b/c both have input on it. Someone just make the call. It is the equivalent of what others in this thread are saying to do for those umpires who don't want to actually make a decision. If you send them back to stand by their call, they will learn a lesson one way or the other. Then, after the game, they will learn more.

May not care what the coaches and fans think about you, but your assignor will care about how you and your partner handled a situation. Remember, you are a "team" out there. If they feel that neither one of you can handle a situation, you don't get higher games. I think too many are reading these as if it is the coaches' or fans' perception to be worried about. Who cares about them as long as they don't get out of control over it. If you send him back to handle his own, he'll get to move up b/c he becomes better after things like this. You do b/c you made a bad situation into a well handled one and helped your partner to get better.

It is very simple. Each umpire has a job out there. Get your partner to do his while you do yours. If you are going to do his as well, why is he there? Why did you accept a game with more than 1 umpire? If he is untrained, help him to get better by letting him deal with a situation he created to see how he handles it. And, help him after the game to prevent it in the future. Provide some training after the game.

Adversity makes one better. "Passing the buck" helps no one.

If you are working with guys who have been trained then this should never happen. However, in the youth baseball world it is very possible and should be handled accordingly. Teach in the parking lot.