SH0102

Ummmm no…not seeing a pulled foot is not judgment. Calling an out on the timing is judgment, as is whether a pitch crossed the strike zone, as is whether a batter offered. If you let coaches appeal your partners safe/out calls on timing, more power to you, but don’t act like you don’t know what can and can not be appealed for help by a coach.

That point isn’t even always understood by umpires, let alone coaches. I was watching my son umpire (BU) he is new but solid, and his partner (HPU) was someone I know has umpired at least a few years. My son had a banger at first, called an out. Kind of a long delay but eventually OHC comes out of 3B dugout and says to HPU “I want to appeal that play”. HPU says “you have to go talk to him first”. I was right by backstop and I know the HPU so right as I was about to say it, my son yells from A position “you can’t appeal a judgment call”. Not only do people need to know the process, they need to understand what can be discussed. Safe/out and ball/strike are not them

This is a solid question. I’m using NCAA rule book, but a runner is out when a “fair batted ball strikes the runner before it touches a fielder or passes all infielders who have a chance to make a play on the ball”. Definition of a batted ball is just a ball put in play by a bat. So I’m saying INT bc it didn’t deflect off a fielder and I’m assuming it hasn’t passed INF’s (unless they were playing in)

If this is true, that is ballsy and amazing at the same time. I was waiting for a travel youth game to start on an adjacent field a week or two ago, and the local HS softball team was playing their rival (end of reg season) Girl got in a rundown between third and home. There was a whiff of possible obstruction in the run down, umpires didn’t call it, girl was tagged out to end the inning. Well the coaches and fans just start screaming for interference. HC (also 3B coach) is barking at umpires about how that’s interference. Someone (no idea who any of these people are) asked me, bc I was suited up for my game, if I saw interference. I said “no, I didn’t see interference, but even if it happened, she’s out anyways” and then started walking to my field. I didn’t explain bc I didn’t want to get into a debate or diatribe about semantics, but I wonder if my comment; while correct, stirred some debate amongst them. 😂

This is a tough one...bc rarely do people want unsolicited advice, especially when it comes to them being a bad parent, and it isn’t our job to try and give it, and so I can see why he’d be snarky about an umpire turning counselor on him. That said, you do have jurisdiction on the field in regards to sportsmanship and the game being played and progressing. If this coach’s behavior, words, actions, or voice, cross your line of sportsmanship or is preventing the game from moving forward, then I’d just run him and deal with the explanations and advice later. Sounds like you tried to do it the right way, not toss him, talk to him so he wasn’t being shown up (everyone else hears it), but I think you’d be hard pressed to find many people who would have accepted your unsolicited advice , especially once they’ve already established the kind of person they are by losing their s*** at an 8 year old. If I was the coach of that team, I’d have benched him and made him apologize to teammates, be in control as the adult.

Maybe meaningless to an umpire but meaningful in that 98% of people believe that contact “has to be something” (either INT or OBS) which is not a true statement

I am willing to throw myself under the bus here...I still have a hard time accepting this. I saw and defended Azul's case play, I get it, but the defense has the right to appeal (and in FED, can do a dead ball appeal) a missed base. The runner has the right to advance all 4 bases without being put out, but in missing a base, he provides the defense the opportunity to appeal it and achieve an out. A coach reminding a kid to go back and re-touch, no issue. But grabbing him and forcefully turning him back, I do, and I am likely calling it. That isn't coaching, that is taking over, and the coach has literally, physically, deprived the defense of their right to appeal what otherwise the runner would have provided. The rulebook does not say on a home run, the batter-runner, with the physical assistance of his coach, has the right to advance all 4 bases without being put out, it says the batter-runner does. As soon as the coach PHYSICALLY interjects himself, I've got INT

For me, this post highlights the main issues happening in youth sports and why we have such an officiating shortage (in most/all sports, not just baseball). It's 12U. And they expect MLB umpires. And believe me, I have seen pitches at 12u that actually cross at the strike zone and end up in the dirt by the time they get to the catcher due to lack of velocity and catchers playing too far back. My son was umpiring a 13U game a couple weeks back, HPU, I was his BU, and coaches were bitching about strikes that were in the channel (outside plate, inside chalk), and I finally had enough. I told the coach, I am done listening to you. I umpire college and in D3 and JUCO college, we go edge of chalk (inner edge) to edge of the chalk, and you're out here complaining about one-ball width in 13u? Get over yourself" We struggle to have enough good umpires at the higher levels (varsity HS and above), and people scream and belly-up umpires at 12u for calling a low strike? One of these days, when I have a youth tournament where I know the coaches and fans just bitch about everything (we know which teams after enough games), I am going to call my D1/D2 strike zone, all game, to every pitcher, and when they bitch about 45 walks in the game, I am going to tell them "this is what you always want every game I have worked for you before...nothing off the plate called, nothing remotely below the knee called, here you go" Doubt it will help, but maybe someone will get the point. So you kicked a call at 12u, in your first year umpiring. GOOD. You learn better from your mistakes. I can tell you 100 different rules that are correct and how to apply them. You might remember a fraction of them. But when you kick the rule and screw it up? You will remember it the rest of your life how to properly fix it. You SHOULD be making your mistakes at 12u, that's what helps you get better so you don't make them later when you're doing HS varsity, college, big summer tourneys, etc. Keep doing your thing, keep asking questions, learn from your mistakes, and welcome to the umpiring brotherhood

I think saying “you can’t appeal until the ball is live/in-play” is fine, but a step by step tutorial? No. We can’t coach players and certainly shouldn’t be or have to coach the coaches

I am okay with sticking it and holding it until I make the call, but if I say "ball" and they still keep it there, yeah, the catcher and I will have a conversation.

Is there a question in this post? BU was wrong, it happens. You don't say what level this was, but anything short of a HS playoff game, it isn't worth getting ejected over this. Protest the game (if allowed) and be done with it.

I too don't know a ton about softball, but I will take a stab. 1) Pace of play in softball is not an issue. They have no lead offs, no pick offs, and usually no offense. Games are over pretty quick, so the stepping out of the box may not be as much of an issue as it is in baseball. 2) Did you mean pull "pitches"? If so, have you watched baseball? Good lord, watch an MLB game when they replay a pitch. The catchers glove will go from entirely outside the K box to completely in the middle of it. I would surmise framing is as rampant in softball as it is in baseball.

You aren't an oddball. While I don't personally have some motto to avoid the ball at all costs, I can probably count on two fingers the number of times I handled a ball when I was BU. Once I remember I was in A and a foul ball was smoked off the fence foul by 1B and bounced right to me, I picked it up and tossed it towards the on-deck hitter to take to HPU next at-bat, and another a SS ended an inning with a diving snag, and flipped it to me as he celebrated...I just turned and rolled it towards the mound. Again, I don't go out of my way to avoid a ball, but there rarely is a reason to handle the ball as BU

I have the utmost respect for our military members, and I think most of us understand the sacrifice and chance they take by doing so. but these videos always get me teary bc it shows the true emotion of the “forgotten sacrificers”, their children and wives. I feel guilty leaving my wife home while I go do an NCAA doubleheader and I’m home by dinner, these guys are gone for months. good stuff, only wish his dad had been the umpire

I wish I could make umpire my full time job but alas, I can not. I umpire for many reasons, but mainly because I enjoy it and it keeps me involved in the game I’ve loved since I was about 3. Favorite part about umpiring is taking pride in doing well and constantly trying to get better. Never baffles me how much I learn each year, how much I screw up something when I think I’ve learned so much, there’s always nuances to learn better or learn for the first time. Least favorite part is easily the “chirping”. Now, as I’ve gotten better I hear much less of it, but there’s always some for every umpire, and I’m all for the “oohs”, but literally verbal abuse of an umpire, is expected and tolerated, baffles me. I’ve actually enjoyed college more than any other level I’ve done bc the fans and coaches are far more knowledgeable about rules. I don’t have any really cool stories...just enjoyed meeting new people. Had a couple calls this year that seemed “controversial” at the time I made it (FPSR and batters interference) that both coaches later in the season told me (after coming out to argue originally) I had the call right once they saw it on video. I knew I had them right at the time but was kind of surprised a college coach, weeks later, would offer that up

That’s what I thought too (obviously) but Azuls quoted interp said not on a home run. Live ball, in park HR, or scoring from 2nd, yes, home run no

Max, I have never seen or heard of an umpire calling a batter out for a high-five. Is that actually happening? I’d think an assignor would be having a less than pleasant chat with said umpire

I stand corrected...good catch Azul, guess I need to go back and review HS interps usually ncaa is more lax than NFHS, this one appears to be reversed.

Yes, the rule says a runner is out when a coach “by touching or holding, physically assists the runner in returning to or leaving a base”. there is no caveat that says “during a live ball only...” Essentially, the coach, by grabbing the runner and pushing him back, deprived the defense of an appeal opportunity they might have had if he had not grabbed him

Might be a “had to be there” thing, because oftentimes a description of how much contact occurs depends on which team you’re rooting for. But the rule is “physically assist” a runner in advancing or returning. Contact by itself is not in of itself interference. Did his tap simply get his attention or did it help stop his momentum? Was it used to say “hey Johnny” or was it a panicked “get back get back” and he turned his shoulder in getting his attention? Any chance you have a video of it?

Looks like runner is trying not to hit the fielder but unfortunately for him, that’s not the rule. As soon as he pops up, he puts himself at risk of violating FPSR. video would be better, umpires angle would be best, but I’m very likely calling it

I hit submit too soon...since runner scored, obstruction would be called but nothing to enforce

What that long rule says is you either have obstruction on the shortstop or nothing, definitely not INT on the runner. This is a thrown ball, not a batted ball. One fielder is protected from being interfered with on a batted ball only. Your description sounds like easy obstruction (unless the runner intentionally created contact which could also be malicious)

A runner who has been retired is permitted to continue advancing (what if SS bobbles ball and umpire deems it was no catch), however, few things come into play: The runner can not do anything intentional to INT (hands go up, veer into throw, etc) On a force play, the runner must slide or give himself up IN THE VICINITY OF THE BASE. Key to me in your situation is that he is well off the bag. If we call INT simply bc the SS pegged the runner who did nothing but run towards his next base and was not in the vicinity of the base, we would invite every middle infielder to just throw at the runner when they think they don’t have time to get the batter (he’s too fast)

I agree and disagree with Kevin. The thing he mentioned that’s important is pre-game this, bc if the two of you work together, then you are covered. I think absolutely U1 should come in on this (and NCAA mechanics require it if ball is on top of you, not sure about FED). A veteran ump I have done many games with always says “so I can take F-F/C-NC 320 feet away down the LF line but I can’t get that ball 100 ft up the 1B line? The key is that whomever is on the ball, the other has the plays and touches at all bases. If you stay, you are essentially “out” and HPU should get batter touch and plays on him. If you come in, you have touch and plays and he has C-NC-F-F There is one runner and one ball and two umpires. As long as you aren’t both covering the same one, you are good