SH0102

Idk, you said it was confirmed you were correct, but generally a protective netting is not the barrier that needs to be cleared for a HR. They made a field, with a wall, and then added netting to protect homes. I’d think above wall is HR too, but not so much I’d be an a$$ about it

What is the purpose of the netting? Is it to protect houses, or a walking path, or a flower garden, that are beyond the fence? If it’s for protection, I’d argue it should be a home run, as the wall is the typical barrier that must be cleared for a HR. If it was designed to be a tougher “wall” to clear, then sounds like you were correct, but I don’t know why they didn’t just build a higher wall… As for the game management piece, I wouldn’t have entertained him so long. “Coach, these are the ground rules for both teams, play by them or you’re free to forfeit, but we aren’t going to argue about them”

It is..,the rule provides a runner two options, slide legally or veer away, end of story (in Fed and NCAA) going straight in is neither

I’ve never worked a tournament that had a “game ends at ____” rule. The inning can’t start after ____ is normal, but once an inning starts, it has to be played out (in my experience) I rarely side with coaches in arguments with umpires, but this one sounds justified. Not Bc you did anything wrong, you followed the rules you were given (as you should), but the rule is asinine

Man, these situations are tough. I am fine with no INT if the batter is doing what he’s supposed to. Turning into the path of catcher and throwing bat through his play? Hard not to call that… Edit: I wasn’t thinking about the batter now being a runner…so the rule about “any movement other than a swing” doesn’t apply

I am struggling to picture how a batter, who should be heading to first, runs into the catcher who is throwing to third… If he was driven back by an inside pitch, I can see it, and then I’m definitely not calling INT… But the OP said he bumped him as he headed to first…how ?

Except my son was BU for a 12u game and said “he’s out”, not realizing the batter was a girl….so there’s that… But I agree in principle

Dawg....I so wish this was true...I did a youth game a couple weeks ago (14 or 15u...can't recall) that I nailed everything...I mean everything. I know I did not miss a call on the bases, my strike zone was consistent and big enough for that age that it kept the game moving without calling anything egregious, and I had to apply about 6 rules that the general populace knows nothing about. Was one of those days where I felt good about myself because all of my studying of the rule book came through for me. But because I was applying rules that the general person doesn't fully grasp, that made me a big a-hole in their eyes, and I was being screamed at for "making **** up" and "not knowing the rules". Mind you, some of these same fans that told me I don't know the rules were yelling for infield fly on a pop up with R1 only, but I digress. The truth of the matter is, the only way to be "liked" by a team is for every call to go in their favor. And since that isn't happening, you might as well just leave the field knowing you called a good game and not worry or care about what the fans think. I could be in a stadium with 999 fans, 1 partner on the field, and 1 evaluator in the stands. If my partner and evaluator say I did a nice job, I could care less what the 999 think. Because fans literally is short for "fanatics", they are biased towards their team, and they know 5% of the rules on average.

^^^^ This has my vote for most ironic, but most true, post of the year

Haha, while I appreciate the humorous comments, I have to actually believe that runners not advancing and touching is not "looking for ____" (trouble/$***), its an obligation they have. I do however like the thought process of treating it like a game ending situation, since as I stated, that is it's only parallel to the higher levels, so using the same thought process, as long as B-R and R3 advance, run counts.

Anytime the third out (or advantageous fourth out) is made on the batter without their having safely reached first, no runs shall score. So if the out was declared for missing first base on appeal, no runs score. If the umpire missed that as you said, and was just a normal put out, then runs count if they touched home before the tag for the put out. Couple of side notes however.... --- In my time as an umpire, I have seen about 5,247 missed bases by runners, and about 4 have been appealed. No idea why a batter who misses first and has made it all the way to second would then turn and go back because of it. You are way more likely to be put out going back than you are of the defense appealing. --- To pile on to that, even if the defense sees it and appeals it (rare), the umpire has to see it too. So let's exaggerate and say there is a 5% chance the defensive team actually saw it and is going to appeal it, and if you have a decent umpire, there's an 90% chance he saw it...much less if he is working solo, the odds of both happening is only 4.5%...keep running! --- Was this umpire working solo? No umpire, EVER, should call a runner out for missing a base if they didn't see it happen. I don't care if every player, coach, and fan of the defensive teams shouts in unison "he missed ____ base!", you can not call what you don't see. If he was working solo, missed touches are part of life...especially on balls in the air, because he can not look at touch of first until the fair/foul/catch/no-catch has clearly been determined. The only part of this post that bothers me is you saying the umpire missed his missed touch, then called him out on appeal (only thing to appeal is missed base), so I am not a fan of their changing the call for something they didn't see.

So my son was umpiring a 13/14u rec game yesterday and a situation arose that literally can not happen in HS and above, so I wasn't sure if what we discussed after the fact was correct. Specific Rule to this league is that a team can only score 5 runs in an inning. Even if you hit a grand slam after 4 are in, making runs 5 - 8, only 5 runs count. Anyways, visiting team had scored 4 runs and had the bases loaded with 1 out. Batter is walked, effectively walking in the 5th run and ending the inning. The situation? R1 and R2 never touched their next bags....once the batter walked, he trotted to first and R3 came home, but R1 and R2 got about halfway, turned back to their dugout and left the field. Now, no appeal was made, but I guess I was wondering about if they did...could they have appealed to 3rd and then 2nd for two "force outs" and negate the run? For me, that seemed like a definite yes. My bigger question was, if they appealed to 2nd and then 3rd, would the out at 2nd remove the force on R2, thus making it a time play and run does score? Can you even negate a force on a walk? It's not like by declaring R1 out, R2 could turn around and run back to 2nd. I say this can't really happen b/c in HS and above, this situation could only present itself in a walk-off situation, and in those cases, batter and R3 need only advance (at least in NCAA...I need to double check that for HS) Any thoughts?

If you're going to play grammar police, at least include the entire statement. You pick and choose one sentence to say it is not correct, but ignore the very next sentence. It's called a statement, which can involve more than one sentence. I apologize for putting a space between them. And yes, I should have said "play" instead of "out", that one should be corrected A force-play-slide-rule is by definition, an obligation to slide on any force out at any base (other than first). The only alternative is to veer off away from the defender.

Never once did I say peeling off is INT. And never once did I say their only option is to slide. The very next sentence said their only alternative was to give themselves up and veer away But going straight in is NOT peeling off, and is not away from the defender…that is what I said.

I mean, if you want to argue they don’t have to slide bc they can peel off instead, that’s fine; but running straight into the base does not meet the alternative to sliding

The NCAA rule book literally says, word for word, “on any force play, a runner must slide in a direct line between the bases”…then says the only way they “need not slide is if they slide or run in a direction away from the fielder”

A force-play-slide-rule is by definition, an obligation to slide on any force out at any base (other than first). The only alternative is to veer off away from the defender. Going straight in is always interference . The rule also says whether or not a double play can be completed has no bearing on the application of this rule

As an umpire, I don’t care about official scoring, so I won’t lose sleep over this, but that makes no sense… If a batter hits a walk off home run in a tie game, they don’t get credited with a single and one RBI. Assuming ball is hit deep, bounces over fence and out of play, it’s a 2-base award, dead balls advance two bases, two runs score. I mean, it’s literally an automatic double, not a single that “could have been a double if ran out” (such as a gapper where batter only runs to first bc winning run scored) theoretically, a runner could be appealed out if they don’t take that award or don’t touch one of the bases as well no? I know in dead ball walk offs, only R3 and batter must touch first and home, but again, just give the damn batter two RBIs

Are your games assigned through arbiter? If so, there’s a function that allows you to block a specific person so you can’t be assigned games with them. If not, then the best thing to do is have a polite conversation with someone… You theoretically could tell the assignor that you wish to respectfully not be placed with ____ but in the interest of being polite and professional, wish to keep the reasons why to yourself. Then you aren’t asking he never be assigned, that’s not your call, just not with you. Maybe where you live there is plethora of umpires and not enough games to use people, but that would be rare. The guy will still likely be used unless he is a danger to others, maybe get demoted to younger ages or solo games if the reasons were known, but that’s it

12u usually means young and/or unqualified umpires ; it’s just nature of the beast. Sadly Many 12u parents and coaches scream about every missed call oR a strike that was a little outside. Hopefully the ump learns hiS mistake and doesn’t make it again…we all kicked calls when we were at that level, the good umps learn from them

I just turned it on…wow…that is a LONG way to travel off the line for a simple grounder play…I’ve never seen that and definitely wasn’t taught that at the couple camps I’ve been to. That said, he’s working a super regional and I’m not so I’m not doubting it

I happened to be at this game, so let me clarify a couple thinks: NFHS rule set batter got ball four on a ball in the dirt that got past the catcher so he did a “hard 90” Bc the catcher was slow to get to the ball, batter rounded first and went 5-10 feet towards second , but missed 1B on his initial time-by No play was being made on anybody and batter was walking back towards first when coach just yelled “time for courtesy runner” (for catcher) and the batter just walked to dugout, never having touched first. The courtesy runner came out and stood on first. As with many tourney games that allow courtesy runners, most people just monotonously swap runner for batter. Time was granted bc HPU didn’t know batter missed. (Also, I don’t think BU would deny the timeout until he touched or was put out as that is basically announcing he missed) Guess question being asked by OP is when could defense have snagged an out…as soon as he rounded without touching? Could they have gotten it during time up until courtesy runner took his spot at first?

Okay, I am going to play devil's advocate here... I agree with what our fellow umpires are sharing, specifically that you CAN get help without an "official" request. However, I will add the caveat that I would not do this on EVERY pitch that you get screened on a bunt attempt. How often on a bunt attempt does a batter actually offer at a pitch that nearly kills them? Not often...so I wouldn't start making my mechanic every time I get screened I am coming up with a "did he offer?" I in fact had a 16u showcase game the other day where a kid squared to bunt, the pitch was 2 feet inside and drilled him in the ribs/abdomen....in his attempt to get out of the way, the bat carried forwards, but it wasn't in an attempt to strike the ball. Coach argued it was a swing, as did many fans, but as you already indicated...it's an offer to swing or strike at the ball, not self preservation that happened to carry forwards. I would make the ball call, and if everyone at once starts blowing up, go ahead and offer to get help

Never stopped!!

Anyone have a video of this play? I am genuinely curious if this happened by accident or was intentional. If batter or coach recognized this situation in game speed, that is a pretty impressive way to "steal" a run