SH0102

I’ve been proven wrong, glad to learn something new

I’m not so good with technology, but there are diagrams showing where one has passed the base, so if R2 has one foot on the bag closest to first and other off the bag closer to first, and R1 were to go by him momentum wise, so now has one foot toward third off the bag and other on edge of bag closest to third, he would have passed him. Highly unlikely but was just trying to address “is it an automatic out”

I’m slightly confused, and maybe it’s bc I literally just woke up, but I thought a runner was allowed to be outside the RL if it was on the opposite side of the ball. IE, a bunt in front of the plate so F2 is in fair territory, runner can run outside the RL in foul territory, or vice versa? He would have been “more in the way” of the throw and fielding of the throw by being in the lane, by being a step out, he was actually less impediment on the play bc he was opposite side of the ball ? Am I missing something? I don’t know OBR well so maybe there is no caveat there, or maybe I’m just crazy and no code allows that

No, it is not an automatic out unless R1 passes R2 (technically possible with R2 on first base side of bag and R1 on third base side). In a force situation, R2 would be out when tagged as R1 is forced to advance there and R2 to third. In a non-force situation...let’s say grounder to first, step on first to retire batter, then original occupier (R2) has the right to the bag and R1 would be out when tagged. Typically this situation occurs most in a rundown, when someone tries to stay in rundown long enough for following runner to move up, then defense runs them back to base and both are there.

I’m sure I am over exaggerating and I’m too lazy to go back and confirm, but sure seems like Counsel is in every other ejection video

I agree with you. Every time someone tells me how bad of an umpire he is, I say, “he’s in MLB, we aren’t”. If he is horrible compared to the others around him, I mean, someone has to be the “worst” theoretically, he’s still one of the best 100 umpires in the world. That said, balls and strikes “greatness” boils down to 2 things, consistency, and borderline pitch accuracy. A pitcher could throw 10 in a row to the backstop and umpire is graded at 100% for calling them all balls. He called 1 out of every 6 pitches out of the zone a strike. Where I’m from, doing HS and lower level college, that’s great bc it keeps game moving and guys swinging, but mathematically that isn’t a great day either. But again, he’s still top 100 in the world , I’d gladly be the “worst umpire” in MLB any day

If the ball hits the batter, it is an automatic dead ball, never play-on. (Pitched ball or batted ball...I did not mean a thrown ball) Whether it is an out or not would be, as many have said, dependent on whether he was out of the box. This is no different than if he hits a ball straight into the ground and it bounces up and hits him, just a foul ball. Don't be fooled by how it occurred, only where was the batter when it did occur

Some people knock JUCO games, in any sport, but there are a lot of really really good athletes in JUCO that are there because they didn’t have good grades in HS, or can’t afford a big time school that is offering them a fractional scholarship (I used to teach someone that was best LAX player in state, and they got $2500 to go to Duke...so they still have to pay $50000 but get to play for a top team) My friend in HS threw 95 and played a season of JUCO bc of grades before being drafted in 10th round and making it to AAA Depth isn’t the same in JUCO but you definitely still can see some studs along the way

I have an opinion that others might scoff at, but I actually think calling balls and strikes gets easier as skill and velocity increases. Now, I am sure there is a point of diminishing return that I have not seen since I have never umpired for a top D1 school or MLB type pitchers, fastest I have seen as an umpire is probably about 92. But give me 90 over a 60mph ball that has a parabolic path to the plate any day. And don't forget about the catchers not setting up 4 feet behind the plate where a pitch that crossed at the knees now hits the dirt and makes it really hard to call. As pitchers and especially catchers skill level improves, I have found myself becoming an even better umpire. I was doing a D2 NCAA conference game between two pretty good teams and I really locked in, I was doing mental exercises pre-game to get focused, ate a good nutritious snack, got a good nights sleep, clothes and shoes were nice and clean and pressed so I felt good. It was a step up from my usual D3 games and I was preparing myself to do well, and I called my best game of the season. I was doing a "true" strike zone, unlike perhaps a D3 game between two sub .500 teams where you might go chalk to chalk lest you have 25 walks in a game....and I was told I had a great strike zone after that D2 game, and since I have found myself struggling to be consistent when "manufacturing" a strike zone...meaning KNOWING it is a ball width off the plate but knowing I need to call it b/c it is a JUCO game, or a 16u weekend tourney game. Kyle really nailed it though...timing and tracking. It is human tendency to speed up when the game speeds up, or the crowd noise gets louder. Stay calm, focus on your responsibilities, track the pitch to the mitt, replay it in your mind, make a decision, call it. And don't forget to have fun, because baseball is fun, and umpiring isn't worth it if you don't enjoy it.

Best play I probably had this year was a D3 NCAA conference game between top two teams in the conference. 2-1 game in top of ninth, visiting team is down a run, two outs and runner on third only. I was U3 (three man crew) Ball was hit to LC gap, fielders converging, so I start to go out, ball was smoked so can’t get too far before need to come set to watch the action. Both fielders dive and collide (not violent but contact) and roll over...I think the batter was almost to third before I made the out call, I ran out to them watching guys glove whole time, right before I get there, he went from laying on his back with his arms splayed to lifting his glove, ball still in it, I signal out, place goes bonkers. Ended game on that play between two good D3 teams, and my timing was impeccable, wasn’t deciding that catch until I was sure!

I was going to say that in NCAA this is a rotation (but Matt already drove that home for me) At an NCAA camp I went to, the evaluator said “any good base umpire can still cover third on this play” but then also told us “being new to ncaa, you will be evaluated based on the manual so do the rotation”. So you can see why I said to discuss it in pre-game. But, and I won’t bold it and italicize it like you did, it is actually a rotation. Just not in HS

Because it was a pop up that was caught, even type 2 obstruction by F3 would still be ignored and out stands. If for some reason, the umpire was protecting F3 (F2 caught it but it’s theoretically possible), then you have INT on batter and he is out. If you somehow deem this as nothing (it can’t be but even if you did), the ball was caught, so batter is out. So no matter what, batter is out. Here is the video link since you didn’t post it.. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/white-soxs-jose-abreu-and-royals-hunter-dozier-exit-fridays-game-after-full-speed-collision-during-pop-up/amp/

Definitely BU has that touch. I am a big believer in “when there is nothing left to watch, watch something”. So even if a manual said PU has all touches at third, as a BU I would ask myself, “this is the last runner on the bases, there is no play to call at third, should I just head back to A? Enjoy my break for the duration of this play?” Now, this is in the manual, and I obviously was being silly, but my point is, last runner (BR) would be BU responsibility, and if BU was good, he didn’t even leave third base side working area after the touch bc he stayed home in case of a run down (possible extra action)

I have learned some things that are really good in practice but either not in or once in a while in complete contrast to the manuals that we cover before every 3-man game, and even some on 2-man (especially R1 only and bunt, who has play at third if R1 goes there) But, in this situation, your partners practice makes no sense. With less than 2 outs, any fly ball to the V will usually have the runners tagging or stopping halfway. What is happening on the bases that is so important he needs to watch while you take the catch? The only thing I can come up with about 2 outs vs less is the absence of any tag ups. He must feel he has to prioritize tag ups so you get the catch. But a good BU will always have the catch and R2 in his vision (sometimes R1 depending on where ball was hit) and you do the best you can with R1. 2-man has lots of holes, tag ups and touches being the big one bc you’ve got multiple runners and a ball that has to be watched and only 2 sets of eyes. Next time you work with him, here is your “cop out” so you don’t sound like you’re saying anything bad about him. ”(Jim), I really want to start doing HS next year, and I’m going to be evaluated on the mechanics in the manual, so I need to start practicing those”. This can lead into a “natural” discussion about why he does what he does, hear him out, but tell him you need to do manual mechanics so he has the V. Oh, and you said R1 and R3 you stay home, you actually will rotate to third on a hit (not caught) for a play there on R1, head home if there is no play (he isn’t coming) or he likely will go for home. You stay home on a fly ball where R3 is tagging and line up tag. If dropped, head for third and do your best to peek back at touch, but again, this is a hole in 2-man

If that is what he meant, then I completely mis-understood his original post. So going with the SS (F6) being the one who hit him and not the ball, then that changes the replies: 1) The ball passing you is pretty much irrelevant to this situation 2) The only question is, was F6 a protected fielder in the process of fielding the ball or making an attempt to field the ball? If the umpire called you out for INT, then the umpire judged that F6 was protected and was still trying to field the batted ball. You (the runner) said that F6 had no chance to field the ball, which is your "judgment". The umpire had his. Now, if the ball had already passed the shortstop and was in the outfield, or truly was so far from F6 that he had no chance at the ball, then clearly there is no judgment anymore and the umpire messed up.

I am slightly confused how the ball had already passed you, but then hit you....? But to answer your question...how do you know that both F5 and F6 had no chance to field it? If the umpire judged either had a chance, even a small one, then by rule you are out. You had part of the rule correct about being able to make a play, but that standard only applies after it the ball has passed an infielder (not counting the pitcher) So if SS was playing in on the grass, ball was hit past him, then hits you, you are still out if umpire judges the 3B had a chance...if not, then it’s a live ball. From your description, sounds like fielders were behind you, so yes, the umpire was correct

To hopefully help you understand, “a foul tip dropped”, by definition is not a foul tip, it is a standard foul ball. Try to use the word tip anytime the catcher catches it (can be any strike, not just strike three), and that is always a live ball. Anytime the foul is not caught, it is a foul ball, ball is dead, runners return

To add to this, if you are behind the infielders, and the ball hits you on the fly and stays in the air, it is deemed a ground ball for the purposes of obtaining an out. The SS catching it off a deflection of you would not be an out, they must still throw to first

I have to admit, I know little about softball. But you say the rule says where they can’t stand...I would think the rule would state where they CAN stand, if allowed at all. If the rule says “can’t stand in the outfield”, does that mean they can stand in the infield? Behind the catcher? In baseball, teams can have one coach in each batters box and definitely none out there, even in foul territory, when they are on defense. I can’t imagine the rule allowing coaches at 8U (designed to help Kids learn the game and be in correct places) continues to 10U, it has to end somewhere. If it is allowed, I’d think the rule would clarify where they can stand. If it isn’t allowed, they shouldn’t be anywhere in live ball territory when on defense. And to answer your question, foul ground is foul ground, not the outfield.

GuestNJCoach....are you implying that the pivot foot (foot on the rubber) is the one going forward or the stride foot? If the former, you can not legally take a step forward with that foot, period. If you are doing a spin move, the pivot foot can land in front of the plate but that is not a "step"...if it is the latter, then that simulates a pitch and by definition, is a balk if they do not deliver said pitch.

Have to agree with Matt on this one. They can wear jewelry in NCAA and MLB so it isn’t really a safety issue. And even if it is, what’s a stud earring going to do? If you get hit in the ear by a pitch it’s gonna hurt more? Pretty sure you’re already toast anyways. I can get on board with no “dangly” stuff that can get snagged or caught during a tag or slide, but a non-dangly earring, a necklace that isn’t all dangly and loose and flopping around...who cares?

Well if the defense is telling you it was a home run, who are you to argue? was the ball even close to or in foul territory when it was found? I mean, if it was “found” in fair territory, that’s a HR. I’m assuming if it bounced in the field of play, you’d be able to have seen it. If not, you prob should have already ended the game due to darkness. The only two questions here are: 1) Fair/Foul? 2) Over the fence in flight or bounced over? Again, in all honesty, if you lost the ball such that you have no idea how it ended up where it ended up, you probably shouldn’t be playing...bc the outfielders are looking at that ball from similar distance every pitch. But if you truly lost it, and the ball is now over the fence in fair territory, that’s a home run, especially when the defense isn’t even arguing it bounced, it clearly didn’t then

I’ll just stick to the rule book, as I stated, “third out made before batter safely reaches first, no runs shall score”. Try to use parallels to help someone understand and make sense of why it doesn’t count and make it worse

I think what Matt was saying, and he is correct, technically a coach has no “official authority” over a fan. In other words, you can tell the coach to deal with it, and it may work but is not a guarantee. Personally I’d start with the coach, ask him to try and handle it, and if that doesn’t work; get the TD involved. I think what Matt was getting at was that you can’t throw out a coach bc of his fans, so the coach theoretically could say no, he won’t talk to them, or he could talk to them and they tell him to shove it up his ***. But id still try, in my limited times a fan needed addressed, a simple professional convo with the coach got it handled

When the third out is made on the batter before he safely reaches first, no run shall score. Another way to think...was the batter “forced to run”? Yes I realize he didn’t, but he had to run or be put out, thus it’s a force out, no run