SH0102

As someone who is one of those guys trying to work my tail off to get better and move up, I have to politely disagree with you. Television, money, replay, and coaches, have forced the best of the best being placed. I mean, if an umpire calls a pitch 1.5” off the plate, it’s on umpireauditor, the announcers have a heyday with it, teams in dugouts see it and gripe. An assignor just can’t put a bunch of new guys out there just because it’s their turn in the rotation. I’d like to believe that talent matters…I’d like to believe if I do a good job, I’ll get a conference tournament soon (I’m newer), or a D3 or JUCO postseason (beyond conference). I’d like to believe that if I do a good job, and someone else doesn’t, I’ll get that spot over that person. But I can’t hope for that and then say, “well I should get a CWS over someone better than me bc it’s only fair” Its hard to compete with those guys bc they are really good. I went to a AA game a week ago and only watched the umpires…they were really good, and prob have near zero chance of making pros. If they join the college ranks in a year or two, it’s only fair I get a better assignment than them? No… All that matters is, if you’re truly good enough, truly as good or better than someone out of the minor leagues, will they give you a shot? If the answer is yes, then I’m okay with that. Very few of us can be as good as them bc we didn’t work the highest level of players, highest level of training, and maybe more Important, the pressure of knowing every play/call matters , like really matters, bc their chance at moving up and pros depends on it, and the players career chances of pro depend on their stats, so hosing calls and rule applications has far reaching implications beyond what we experience in most college games. If I ever get as good as them, I hope they give me a fair shake. If I don’t (prob won’t), then I’d be happy with some lower level postseason and occasional D1 assignments as my “ceiling”

And the time is not based on the batter reaching first, it’s on the runner crossing home

The rule says if the third out is made ON THE BATTER-RUNNER BEFORE REACHING FIRST. If the third out is made on another runner, the only question is what that runner forced to run or not. If not, then it’s a time play on the run

I am not too familiar with softball rules, but an illegal pitch always occurs prior to anything at the plate… Do you play under a rule code where illegal pitch is a dead ball? Or delayed dead ball? If immediate, then as soon as it happened, nothing after can occur and they got call correct. If it’s a delayed dead ball, this usually allows the offense the opportunity to achieve a better result than penalty for illegal pitch (such as a hit) so I would guess (again idk softball rules) that the interference would be enforced. Normally in baseball to ignore illegal pitch/balk, batter and all runners must advance at least one base, but since you said illegal pitch, I’m guessing no one was on, and thus, batter reaches first on interference

It’s already been hinted at, but it’s very helpful to remember that the last thing that moves when starting momentum is the foot…generally hands come up, knees “unbend”, torso goes from bent over to more upright, and last thing to happen is foot comes off. plain and simple, it has to be really obvious he left early to signal an out

What I’ve typically seen (and as mentioned, kinda need to check your local/tourney rules), is if the kid leaves due to injury and you still have 9+, no out. If they leave bc they were ejected, always an out. If they left bc they have a hot date, or want to get to Arby’s before they close, out

You got it right

As for the HPU, he actually is in poor position as well. Why is he heading towards third? There is zero situations where he has a call at third. Who saw your son touch first ? What is ball was dropped in CF and F3 obstructed your son? I am okay with two sets of eyes on ball for a second on a screamer the fielder is diving at, but not a can of corn to center.

In my opinion, there is no excuse for a HS tournament umpire to have this positioning. I would expect this at a youth game or maybe freshman level. On a fly ball, umpire should have runner and fielder making the catch lined up in his vision. There are some spots where it is tougher than others in 2-man to line it up great, but dead center is not one of them. And as an aside, I try very hard to get all calls correct, but there are calls you have to be 100% on to make, and leaving early is one of them. In this case, based on positioning, there’s no way he could be 100% certain he left early

Fair point, I was thinking about flare jobs more than high flys

I can't add anything that wasn't already said, so I will just double down on the fact that this has to be obvious. Calling an intentional act that wasn't intentional is very contentious...if you see it and believe it, call it. If you don't see it or are unsure, let it play out. One more thing...usually intentional drops aren't attempted on line drives (maybe the savvy pros but certainly not at HS and below). One, the reaction time is much less, so less time to think and realize you can try it. Two, line drives are much more unpredictable. They can tail, knuckle, and can certainly ricochet far enough away that you get zero outs of it. It would have to be pretty blatantly obvious to call intentional drop on a line drive, and to be honest, I am kind of surprised you got crap about NOT calling it, that is the far less controversial call. In all the games I have ever done at levels ranging from 10u to college, I have called intentional drop one time that I remember, and I certainly have seen MANY balls dropped/not-caught in my time, and never once has anyone argued it should have been called intentional.

I hear ya, and running the bases is fun, especially after a “big” home run (take lead, win game, etc). Id like to see it back in softball and never taken out of baseball.

MeNs softball doesn’t require running bc the games usually have a 45-50 min time limit, and it isn’t hard to hit home runs , so lot of Time would be lost to jogging around bases

This isn’t really a rules question, but I’ll take a stab… The intentional walk rule was inserted for pace of play. Baseball is trying to stay relevant to a generation of people used to getting instant gratification via social media and video games and remote controls for everything. So while yes, a wild pitch could occur in one of those four lobs to the plate, it wasn’t worth the 2 minutes it took to get the ball, get set, lob the pitch in, throw the ball back, and repeat 3 more times. The HR is still the sexiest part of baseball for many (steals and plays at the plate are my favorite). The circling of the bases gives people a chance to cheer, celebrate, and the player to exhibit some flare Removing the exciting part of a game struggling for excitement defeats the purpose

Matt, I too don’t know that answer, but if it does NOT apply, then the batter is running in reverse order intentionally and would be out no ? Its not like he can safely retreat to the previous base as you could argue at other bases.

But this should only happen from the A position bu NEVER goes out from B or C position

Quick question…you are not saying you would go out from the middle in 2-man are you? My two cents…whenever I have the ball as PU, I verbalize that I am on the line (or can say I have the ball, whatever). If you are my BU and I think the catch is mine to call, you will know it. Thus, and this can be pre-gamed, an absence of me saying that means it is yours. Now, I usually will say something on those ambiguous ones too. So in your situation you had, if I read it as yours, I will say something to the effect of, “Your ball Adam!” or “Adam, stay with the ball” Line drives right at F7 and F9 are part of the game, so HPU needs to be ready for these and able to communicate, as they see it sooner than BU (right behind plate instead of turning to see where fielder is heading). I’ve always said, two-man has enough holes, and if you communicate, the worst thing that happens is the umpire who had a slightly worse view makes the call, but at least you worked together and weren’t looking at the same thing.

I know, but when I read the OP, I thought to myself, "the umpire called the batter out on an 0-0 pitch because the catcher caught the foul tip?" I thought that was what he was alluding to, but I guess I honed in on the "called it a K" part. Moving on...

I am just curious as to what rule(s) were enforced this year that would be considered unusual or rare? For example, force play slide rule, while always contentious, is not rare (in my opinion). I am talking about things that are in the rule book, but rarely have to be called. And if a funny story accompanies this (reaction by coach, etc), feel free to share. Probably my most unusual was I had a "reapplied force play". Runner on 1st, I was base umpire in a 2-man system. Runner was stealing on the pitch and the batter hit a flare job behind F3/F4. Close play at first, batter was safe. I am making the call from working area at 1st when I hear "get back, get back!" So in my mind, I would guess that R1 was heading to third and they are saying get back to 2nd. F3 snaps a throw to 2nd base, I turn and pivot and get set. Wait a minute....R1 is sliding into 2nd as if from first base. So here we go...rule book says if for some reason, a forced runner reaches their base and then goes back, the force is applicable again. I called him out, no argument but a question from the coach because "he wasn't tagged". I explained the rule and he accepted it, but in all the games I have umpired or watched, I have never seen that play/rule come into play. Edit: I was still near the coach when he asked R1 who was heading to the dugout why he was going back towards 1st and he said "I thought he caught it". I thought to myself, even if it had been caught, you weren't running 90 feet back in the time it took them to lob the ball 8 feet, but I digress...

Am I the only one who read his question as the batter was called out? He said “K swinging”. Usually a forward K indicates a swinging strike three (as opposed to backwards K for looking) On an 0-0 count, that certainly would have been an issue. If you just were short-handing strike, then the umpire on the field made the right call

Ahh, perhaps I misread it, sorry

I don’t do it, I just say ball and never had an issue with people not knowing what to do…but I am genuinely curious why it’s faux pas to say “ball four” but perfectly acceptable to say “strike three”? They both indicate the at bat is over. imagine this sequence: 1) Ball 2) strike! 3) strike! (Hold up 1-2 count with hands) 4) ball 5) ball (hold up 3-2 count with hands) 6) last pitch…”strike” would that not Inform everyone of the third strike assuming they know the count? But no one I’ve ever worked with doesn’t use “three” in some form. so again, I follow the same advice Jim is giving. I don’t say ball four, I don’t say take your base, so I’m not arguing. im genuinely asking what the reason is to practically require “three” when it’s practically forbidden to say “four”

No, no run shall score when the third out is made on the batter runner before reaching first base

No, a runner who misses home but has passed home has acquired the base , but is subject to appeal (can not retouch once following runner has scored) The second runner to cross would still count after appeal unless the appealed missed plate is the third out

It is the catchers responsibility, in conjunction with the plate umpire usually making a call (“he’s out” or “batters out”) to know the situation. The rule (don’t have the number in front of me) states that a runner (or batter) having just been put out, has not committed interference merely by advancing or attempting to return. There are things they can do that would be deemed INT, but simply running is not one of them. Here is a doozy…can a batter who has legally been put out (strike three), who has no legal right to advance to first but is running anyways (doesn’t know the situation) be guilty of runners lane interference when a catchers throw, that he shouldn’t be making to begin with, is impeded at first by the batter being out of the RL?