Coaches Without a Clue

[tankmjg24]

Recently had this fun in a 10U USSSA tournament with me being the base umpire.  Rather long so sorry in advance.  At the start of the game, all 5 coaches come out to the plate meeting and are amazed when they are instructed that only the manager is needed.  They then cannot believe that they are not allowed to sit/stand 10 feet outside the dugout on their specialized buckets (had team name, storage pockets, and even a nice little cushion on the top with a backrest).  Play is on the weaker side with neither team being that good.  Both pitchers are struggling to understand that they need to pitch from a set position once runners get on base, and more than one time they pitched from the windup allowing the runner to steal easily.  This particular time, F1 from the windup with R2, and as soon as the pitcher starts his motion the 3rd base coach (who is the manager) starts yelling "steal, steal, get over here".  F1 kind of hesitates in his motion, but never stops or commits an act that would make it a balk.  R2 easily steals 3rd, but then the batter swings away and drives the pitch to center field.  R2 is standing on 3rd, and the coach tells him to tag from 3rd.  F5 makes the catch, and R2 legally tags up from 3rd base.  F8 throws to F4 at 2nd for the easy out.  Manager comes over arguing that he had attained 3rd base.  I tried to explain that was not the case, but he was listening.  So finally, I instructed that if he thought we misinterpreted the rule that he was within his rights to protest the game.  He tells me that he would like to do so, at which point I instruct him that we need either a check for $100 or $100 cash (tournament directors rules) prior to lodging a protest.  He then starts to yell about how we blew the call and now want more money from him.  I warn him and tell him that the conversation is over and either pay for the protest or we are playing baseball.  He chooses play baseball.  I go back to A and the game continues, but as the next batter is taking his position in the box, coach in the dugout is loudly telling his team about how I got the rule wrong and that you cannot control what the umpires miss.  Manager stops at the dugout and is talking too.  I cannot hear what is being said, but PU does and calls time.  (Turns out he walked over and told the coach and players that they have to play harder to beat the other team and the crappy umpiring). PU walks up the 3rd base line and signals for the manger to come talk to him.  I go down about halfway to home in order to hear the conversation (our organization likes to have the other umpire within ear range in case something is said and to keep an eye on everyone else around).  Manager tells PU that he was not talking to us, but to his team (yeah that old line).  PU responds that he has already been warned and that we are not having any of it.  Coach on bucket is still going, I warn him to cut it out and that we are not going to listen to it anymore.  Assistant goes back to his bucket mumbling something, manager goes back to the coaches box, and the game continues.  Next batter strikes out.  In between innings I am in short RF, can still hear the coaches talking loudly about how the call was blown and about how it should have been a balk anyhow.  Assistant coach starts to walk out towards me yelling that he wants to talk to me.  I put my hand up (which he totally ignores) and then tell him that I am not going to discuss a play in the past and that the manager needs to be the one doing their talking.  He then responds that I blew the call and now won't even talk to him because I know I blew the call.  At this point he was ejected, and somehow he could not believe he was.  Of course now comes the childish tirade about how the game is for the kids, I do not know the rules and cheated his team, I am trying to make the game about me, etc. Sad thing is, the team still thinks that the call was blown and that they are right.     

[GPblue]

Sounds like coaches care more about their pretty buckets then the game.  Any feedback to/from the tournament directors on this?

[CricketChapman]

Other guys can probably point out any mistakes in handling this one with much greater depth, but I'll say this:  the griping was allowed to go on for far too long.  Were you right to eject?  Absolutely; but it probably should have occurred quicker.

[tankmjg24]

@GPblue the tournament directors are pretty good guys, but at the same time they are trying to make teams happy so that they play in the tournaments.  They have always backed the umpires with an ejection.  The policy is you are ejected from that game and there may be additional penalties depending on what happens after.  In this case, they opted for just that game and did not add any additional time.  The one thing that I did not agree with was that they did not make him leave the facility.  He gave them the cry baby story of being from out town and having no where to go (there is a mall down the street), and the tournament directors opted to allow him to just go past the fans down the line and watch.  I was told though that they told him to be quiet and not cause any more problems. 

@CricketChapman I agree that it seems as if the griping was over the top, but not really sure what could have been done prior to stop it.  Plate meeting and buckets there was just mumbling from assistants.  Manager was explained why things were the way they were and he seemed to understand.  The assistants could not deal with the fact that they were assistants (typical daddy ball).  The problem with the one play was that they refused to acknowledge they were incorrect with the rule, and then the manager had a problem with the protest fee (not my problem).    

[VolUmp]

Tank,

Is this the first time have had an ignorant coach, coaches, manager, posse, gang, show up at a 10u tournament and act like a bunch of idiots?  There pretty much seems to be one team that ruins the day for every tournament I've called in 13 years ... from 18u down to 8u.  I read your entire story — waiting for something shocking — and never found it.

[catsbackr]

Tank,

 

Too much conversation.  

 

To paraphrase BigUmp, eject one of them and you'll be amazed at how fast the rest fall into line.

[FleasOf1000Camels]

You're working 10u, and you're surprised that coaches don't know dick?

[ElkOil]

You're supposed to take money on the field in order for a coach to protest a game? That sounds strange... and like a recipe for disaster. And from a publicity stand point, it couldn't look worse. I know you don't control that, but if anyone should be protesting, it's your association to the TD about such a ridiculous rule.

And I agree that the coaches' behavior was allowed to go on for far too long. I suggest nipping it in the bud when you first you hear the mumbling from the assistants.

[tpatience]

4 minutes ago, ElkOil said:

You're supposed to take money on the field in order for a coach to protest a game? That sounds strange... and like a recipe for disaster. And from a publicity stand point, it couldn't look worse. I know you don't control that, but if anyone should be protesting, it's your association to the TD about such a ridiculous rule.

And I agree that the coaches' behavior was allowed to go on for far too long. I suggest nipping it in the bud when you first you hear the mumbling from the assistants.

A lot of tournament organizations require a deposit before a protest. They don't want to delay the game with a protest so they want the coaches to be 100% sure they are correct before protesting 

[ElkOil]

7 minutes ago, tpatience said:

A lot of tournament organizations require a deposit before a protest. They don't want to delay the game with a protest so they want the coaches to be 100% sure they are correct before protesting 

That doesn't change the way I feel about it.

[Replacematt]

1 hour ago, tpatience said:

A lot of tournament organizations require a deposit before a protest. They don't want to delay the game with a protest so they want the coaches to be 100% sure they are correct before protesting 

Right...but I've never heard of any of them requiring the umpire to be the collector. You want to protest, great...let's bring the TD over, hand them the money, and they can handle it.

[tpatience]

19 minutes ago, Matt said:

Right...but I've never heard of any of them requiring the umpire to be the collector. You want to protest, great...let's bring the TD over, hand them the money, and they can handle it.

I agree. I missed that part

[ricka56]

17 hours ago, Matt said:

Right...but I've never heard of any of them requiring the umpire to be the collector. You want to protest, great...let's bring the TD over, hand them the money, and they can handle it.

But I do wish that the umpire would get compensated for having his correctly applied ruling challenged. 

Me and my latest rules challenge prize. Relax ... it was my partner's (not coach's) 18-pack. Smiling because winning is easy...collecting is hard. 

[ElkOil]

On 4/12/2017 at 11:40 AM, ricka56 said:

But I do wish that the umpire would get compensated for having his correctly applied ruling challenged. 

Me and my latest rules challenge prize. Relax ... it was my partner's (not coach's) 18-pack. Smiling because winning is easy...collecting is hard. 

I pictured you looking different. More like Alfred E. Newman.

[scrounge]

2 hours ago, ElkOil said:

I pictured you looking different. More like Alfred E. Newman.

I dunno....I think I see the resemblance.

[BrianC14]

Miller Lite...   that's a punishment. 

[MadMax]

58 minutes ago, BrianC14 said:

Miller Lite...   that's a punishment. 

Them's fightin' words, bub. 

Back to the main topic, for some of these massive tournaments, with games spread out as pods at multiple fields and complexes (e.g. MSBL or NABA), the TDs are usually centralized at one site, and enable the umpires to collect and hold in escrow any protest fees. Then there are a series of phone calls placed to resolve the protest in real time. These tournaments can allow for a slight delay in completing (or terminating) a game, but they cannot accommodate a suspension and rescheduling.

[VolUmp]

The tournaments I call have raised the protest fees to $200, and the TDs are never the smartest Rules person around. Frankly, it is I, and I would never agree to be the "collector" of the cash.

I feel no added pressure to get the rules right as long as I'm with a partner whose ego isn't so sky high that he'll fight me on a rule.

i used to long for coaches to protest and display their ignorance while losing $50 ... but at $200, no coach has the baseballs to risk a protest anymore.