IFF fun...

[stl_ump]

IFF situation with bases loaded.

 

Fly ball and infielder drops the ball and all heck breaks loose.  All runners start running.  R3 runs home and touches but then returns to 3rd.  R2 is on 3rd and tries to go back to 2nd but is tagged for the out.

 

My question is this: 

Since R3 touched home, should he be in the dugout with his run counting?

[JaxRolo]

Run counts. Once he touches home he is no longer a runner.

[stl_ump]

That's what I thought.  We removed him from the base and counted the run.

Thanks

[LRZ]

Why did R3 return to 3d? If deemed running the bases in reverse to confuse the defense, and you call him out, OBR 7.08 (i) [HP is a "base"--OBR 2.00--"one of four points which must be touched by a runner in order to score a run; more usually applied to the canvas bags and the rubber plate which mark the base points"], what does that mean for the run? Can you wipe it out?

 

I don't know. Touching home isn't necessarily some magical protection. For example, on a base hit, R2 scores, but misses 3d and is out on appeal--run doesn't count even though R2 is in the dugout.

 

Or am I complicating things way too much?

[stl_ump]

Why did he return?  Because it was an IFF and it was dropped and they were 9u.  Very entertaining.

[Rich Ives]

Why did R3 return to 3d? If deemed running the bases in reverse to confuse the defense, and you call him out, OBR 7.08 (i) [HP is a "base"--OBR 2.00--"one of four points which must be touched by a runner in order to score a run; more usually applied to the canvas bags and the rubber plate which mark the base points"], what does that mean for the run? Can you wipe it out?

 

I don't know. Touching home isn't necessarily some magical protection. For example, on a base hit, R2 scores, but misses 3d and is out on appeal--run doesn't count even though R2 is in the dugout.

 

Or am I complicating things way too much?

 

 

Rule 5.06 Comment: A run legally scored cannot be nullified by subsequent action of the runner, such as but not limited to an effort to return to third base in the belief that he had left the base before a caught fly ball.

[UmpJM]

stl_ump,

 

Score the run.

 

5.06 When a batter becomes a runner and touches all bases legally he shall score one run

for his team.

 

Rule 5.06 Comment: A run legally scored cannot be nullified by subsequent action of the

runner, such as but not limited to an effort to return to third base in the belief that he had left the base

before a caught fly ball.

 

JM

[stl_ump]

So once he has scored, even if he goes back to 3rd, he can't be put out right?  He is no longer considered a runner.

[LRZ]

 

Why did R3 return to 3d? If deemed running the bases in reverse to confuse the defense, and you call him out, OBR 7.08 (i) [HP is a "base"--OBR 2.00--"one of four points which must be touched by a runner in order to score a run; more usually applied to the canvas bags and the rubber plate which mark the base points"], what does that mean for the run? Can you wipe it out?

 

I don't know. Touching home isn't necessarily some magical protection. For example, on a base hit, R2 scores, but misses 3d and is out on appeal--run doesn't count even though R2 is in the dugout.

 

Or am I complicating things way too much?

 

 

Rule 5.06 Comment: A run legally scored cannot be nullified by subsequent action of the runner, such as but not limited to an effort to return to third base in the belief that he had left the base before a caught fly ball.

 

Is there a contradiction between the rules, or at least some uncertainty? Can you have a runner "making a travesty" without applying the prescribed penalty? Or is there a rule-based argument that 7.08(i) no longer applies once the runner touches HP, so that the comment to 5.06 controls?

[UmpJM]

LRZ,

 

There are lots of contradictions in the rules, but this isn't one of them.

 

Once the player scores, he is no longer a runner, so 7.08(i) does not apply.

 

JM

[maven]

I'm inclined to think that 12U and below are not capable of making a travesty of the game. Maybe 16U and below.

 

Or maybe every one of their games is a travesty. Either way, ignore that rule.

[grayhawk]

IFF situation with bases loaded.

 

Fly ball and infielder drops the ball and all heck breaks loose.  All runners start running.  R3 runs home and touches but then returns to 3rd.  R2 is on 3rd and tries to go back to 2nd but is tagged for the out.

 

My question is this: 

Since R3 touched home, should he be in the dugout with his run counting?

 

So when the ball was dropped, you DID reinforce the call by saying something like, "Batter's out!  He's still out!" -- right?  At 9U, it probably would make no difference, but you should do it anyway.

[stl_ump]

Yep... sounded like a broken record. "Infield fly - batters out - Infield fly - batters out - Infield fly - batters out" 

 

As an aside, you can say this multiple times and after all is said and done, someone invariably says "How come you didn't call Infield fly"

[bam]

maven, on 02 Apr 2014 - 10:49 AM, said:

I'm inclined to think that 12U and below are not capable of making a travesty of the game. Maybe 16U and below.

 

Or maybe every one of their games is a travesty. Either way, ignore that rule.

12U and below is, by definition, a travesty. 

[Larry in TN]

 

Is there a contradiction between the rules, or at least some uncertainty? Can you have a runner "making a travesty" without applying the prescribed penalty? Or is there a rule-based argument that 7.08(i) no longer applies once the runner touches HP, so that the comment to 5.06 controls?

 

Seems like what you could have, if you judged the scored-runner to be trying to distract the defense, is interference and an out on the runner he was trying to protect?

[ALStripes17]

Before I do any of our league's 9-10 year old games, I thoroughly prepare myself for the 'cluster situation' that is an IFF that is not caught. Not the actual baseball scenario, but the rat coaches who plead for mercy when their runners get tagged going for successive bases.

Coach: But Blue, how do you expect these kids to know what IFF is?

Me: Good time to teach them, Coach.

[JaxRolo]

No one listens to umpires anyways. At the plate meeting they nod their heads but are not hearing a word you say. When players are running around the field in panic mode you could be yelling at the top of your lungs and they won't hear you.

[BigUmpire]

No one listens to umpires anyways. At the plate meeting they nod their heads but are not hearing a word you say. When players are running around the field in panic mode you could be yelling at the top of your lungs and they won't hear you.

This is another "No Shi}%ter!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[goody14]

IFF situation with bases loaded.

 

Fly ball and infielder drops the ball and all heck breaks loose.  All runners start running.  R3 runs home and touches but then returns to 3rd.  R2 is on 3rd and tries to go back to 2nd but is tagged for the out.

 

My question is this: 

Since R3 touched home, should he be in the dugout with his run counting?

 

Is this OBR or FED?  Because in OBR wouldn't the batter be automatically out and ball dead via 6.05(l) unless the ball was not intentionally dropped.

 

Also, assuming an intentionally dropped ball, am I reading my FED book right that the ball is not dead (batter is still out due to IFF)?  Rule 5-1-1(j) EXCEPTION

[stl_ump]

Who said it was intentionally dropped?  It wasn't.  Why would you infer that?

[noumpere]

 

 

 

Is this OBR or FED?  Because in OBR wouldn't the batter be automatically out and ball dead via 6.05(l) unless the ball was not intentionally dropped.

 

Also, assuming an intentionally dropped ball, am I reading my FED book right that the ball is not dead (batter is still out due to IFF)?  Rule 5-1-1(j) EXCEPTION

 

I'm sure that in 9U, the ball was not intentionally dropped.

 

And, the ball remains live in all codes.

 

I think you're misreading 6.05(l).  As long as it's an infield fly, the ball remains live whether it was dropped intentionally, or dropped unintentionally, or let fall to the ground.

 

See 2.00 Infield Fly Comment:

 

If on an infield fly

rule, the infielder intentionally drops a fair ball, the ball remains in play despite the provisions of Rule

6.05(l). The infield fly rule takes precedence.

[goody14]

Thx...I had that all kinds of mixed up.