Home run or......

[urout17]

Last night, American Legion Senior game. For those of you not familiar with American Legion, most players are Jr/Sr HS age although they allow players born after Jan 1, 2007, which puts some at 19 yrs old.

 

We’re playing at a HS field which I’ve worked tons of games. The field is large, 340 down the lines, 375 gaps, 404 to center. During the HS season, they install a tarp on the chain link fence that raps the entire outfield wall in the school color of dark green. After the season they take it down. 

 

Two very good teams, 2-man crew, I’m on the plate. No score B6 right around dusk. LH batter hits a deep fly ball to RC. I move out from behind the plate and get out as far as possible towards the mound in the direction of the ball. My partner moves in watching the BR touches. From my view, I saw the ball bounce and go over the fence. The BR was hustling and was around 2B when this happened, my partner following him the whole way. As soon as I saw the ball bounce over, I killed it and had the BR go back to 2B.

 

The HC asks for time, comes out, and said the ball clearly went over for a HR. My God’s honest truth I did not see that and of course he wants me to get help. I explained to him my partner had no idea where the ball was since he’s on the runner the whole way (which is what he told me afterwards). He was hot but goes back to the dugout. Next pitch is thrown in the dirt and gets by the catcher putting the runner on 3B. Next ball is hit to the right side for an out scoring the run.

 

After the inning was over, I’m on the 1B line as the players are switching and I noticed the CF jogging in.  I asked him to honestly tell me if it went out and he said it did.  I really felt terrible and still do. I know I'm not perfect but I work very hard to do the best job I can.

 

That turned out to be the only run in a 1-0 game. I’ve been umpiring for 30 years and haven’t had something I couldn’t see.  I’m wondering if anybody else has had something similar happen and/or is there anything that could have been done differently based on the circumstances? Maybe I’m just getting old.

 

Thanks

[Velho]

2 hours ago, urout17 said:

I’ve been umpiring for 30 years and haven’t had something I couldn’t see.  I’m wondering if anybody else has had something similar happen

Absolutely. And it didn't take me 30 years to have it happen 😂

[JonnyCat]

In that particular situation, there is not much more you can do. We often don't work in the pristine conditions of MLB umpires. The lighting, field conditions, weather conditions, often affect our games. That's a long way for a human to see the flight of a small off white ball.

The only thing I can see that could have been done differently is that your partner could have gone out on that ball. IMO, it's a good idea in that situation for your partner to read this as a trouble ball and go out. I'm in no way faulting you or your partner. I'm not even sure you could have got a better angle on a ball hit like that, either.

We just have to do the best we can. It's really hard to see a ball hit over a chain link fence, especially at that distance. Maybe wait a tick before calling a 2 base award? See the actions of the fielders first? If they don't throw their hands up, then use that information to your advantage.

And yes, I've had trouble with balls hit over chain link fences. Don't beat yourself up.

 

 

 

 

 

[scubabob34]

Here is what we do when working 2-man:  We pre-game that in any time where it's less than ideal baseball conditions, any ball attacking the fence has 2 sets of eyes on it, and we give up other, less important responsibilities (i.e. base umpires watches ball and glances at br when he can).  If defense decides to appeal br missing 1st, we tell them to pay for a third umpire.  Note that plate umpire still has to watch the tag up at 3rd, so that mechanic doesn't change.  

2-man is a series of compromises - it puts us in the best possible position for the most likely play.  And we have to prioritize - possible home run is a lot more important than touch at first...

[jimurrayalterego]

4 hours ago, urout17 said:

I explained to him my partner had no idea where the ball was since he’s on the runner the whole way (which is what he told me afterwards).

 

 

Timing wise in your OP it probably wouldn't matter but I see a lot of BUs come in looking at the B-R all the way up the line. They should be reading the ball until the B-R nears 1B. Develop a feel for when to pick up the B-R. 

Yes, I've had coaches nod in unison when we mention visibility issues for HR/GRD at the plate meeting for a certain field.

[TheLovejoy]

 

Unrelated: American Legion FTL!!

 We're right in the middle of American Legion country here. High school baseball isn't nearly as popular. While the rest of the country finishes their high school season and moves on to the more casual, "mess around/not serious/travel" summer ball, we're just getting into the heat of things where American Legion is the only baseball that really matters.

It's a dying breed.

Related:

We aggressively train our umpires to go out on nearly any fly ball where the center fielder moves in, back, or toward right field, or when the right fielder moves at all. We do this for several reasons:
     1. With nobody on base, what does it hurt? (As long as your plate umpire can move a little.)
    2. We train for three-man mechanics, where we always go out with nobody on. Since we work three-man crews for all in-state sanctioned games and all postseason games, it's good to build that habit.
    3. We have a couple of white billboards beyond the fence, a flashy scoreboard, and other background distractions that can make the ball difficult to pick up from a distance.

   I'm definitely not blaming your homie, but on a deep ball to right-center, I'd absolutely go out on it. He's going to be 150+ feet closer to that ball than you are.

As Scuba said, from the field, when we have a ball that could potentially leave the park, we try to get a feel for where the ball is so we can glance at the touch, then get as many eyes on the ball as possible.

Then, when the offensive coach comes out, we can get together and be confident in what we collectively saw.

Likewise, when the defensive team says, "He didn't touch first base," our response is: "I did not have him missing first base." Not, "He touched first," or, "He didn't miss first." We intentionally say, "I did not have him missing first base," (or "I did not have him leaving the base early," etc.).

You're not saying it didn't happen. You're simply saying you did not have it that way.

[BigBlue4u]

11 hours ago, urout17 said:

that turned out to be the only run in a 1-0 game. I’ve been umpiring for 30 years and haven’t had something I couldn’t see.  I’m wondering if anybody else has had something similar happen and/or is there anything that could have been done differently based on the circumstances? Maybe I’m just getting old.

First of all, don't beat yourself up over this.  You did the best you could.  As the saying goes, "Sometimes, despite your best efforts, you take one right between the eyes." The only thing I question is why you didn't ask your partner as the coach requested? Of course, your partner didn't see what happened.  You know that, but the coach probably doesn't know that. He's trying to support his team.  Give him that opportunity.  Ask your partner anyway.

[jimurrayalterego]

2 hours ago, BigBlue4u said:

The only thing I question is why you didn't ask your partner as the coach requested? Of course, your partner didn't see what happened.  You know that, but the coach probably doesn't know that. He's trying to support his team.  Give him that opportunity.  Ask your partner anyway.

He shouldn't "know" that if he knows that a BU coming in should not be looking at the B-R all the way down the line. It probably would be the case in this OP unless @lovejoy and @scubabob34's techniques were employed. In any case, the BU should not be on the runner all the way.

[urout17]

12 hours ago, BigBlue4u said:

The only thing I question is why you didn't ask your partner as the coach requested?

In this particular situation, I knew he was in no position to give help. If I appease the coach, and come back with the same conclusion, two things can happen....A, the coach knows my partner had no look and it throws more gas on the fire, or B, now he believes BOTH umpires got the call wrong.  I chose to own my calls. This does not mean I'll never go for help but not this time.

[dumbdumb]

you remember that old drivers ed test of pulling 2 objects together by strings until they were exactly even that i heard about from the old days to check depth perception. sounds like depth perception may have been off. if that is your first and only time with that issue you are living amongst the baseball gods and out of most peoples leagues. instead of moving straight up in the exact same path the ball is taking, you might want to go more towards the side to get more of some type of "angle" on the ball hit to right center if possible, and not get straightlined so to speak, like on a play at first with the foot. many times fielders dont like that ball straight at them, they want it a little on one side or the other. and sometimes crapola just happens and you kick the crap out of the play as jim joyce said. at least your miss was a 1-0 game and not a possible historical making call like Joyce's was, as he so aptly described it himself, with humility. and joyce was a pitcher himself collegiately in the same conference at the same time with Orel Hershiser.