TheLovejoy

And that makes sense enough, but for some reason them being listed as 1) and 2) made me think it was a potentially different scenario, know? Where really, they are just saying the same thing.

I guess I over thought it. In short, "if the third out of the inning is a force out, at any base, at any time, no matter what happens before that third out, then any runs scored are nullified", yes?

Need a little help on this one. Bases loaded, 1 out. Batter hits a ball down the right field line, lands fair 40 feet or so past 1st base. Both the BR and R1 thought it was either an infield fly, or they thought it was foul, regardless, the BR trots to first, touches it, and kinda walks off to the right. R1 never leaves first. Meanwhile, runner on 3rd scores, and R2 also jogs to 3rd, then takes off home. Right fielder comes up with the ball, and throws home to retire R2. The catcher notices that R1 never moved, and literally jogs himself to second base to retire R1 on a force out at second. I know that no runs score if the 3rd out is the result of the BR not making it to 1st base. So, my first thought, also no outs can score if the 3rd out of an inning is a force out. However, the first run scored, then a tag was made that wasn't a force out, then the 3rd out was the force at 2nd. Can somebody help me simplify this and wrap my head around it? The call that was made was that the 1st run scored because it was made before the tag play that was the 2nd out, then the 3rd out was a force at 2nd. So I assume a timing play was called type of thing. Thoughts? My ruling would have been no runs score, since the 3rd out was a force, regardless of what happens before that. But these were two senior umpires of mine, that allowed it, so now I'm confused.

The assignor of one of the leagues, and a local UIC both said that some of those 2 out C positions, R1 and R2, or bases loaded, can slide to the B position to take the most likely outs at 2nd, or 1st, for the 3rd out force out. I can see the thought, and theory behind that. Anybody inherently AGAINST that?

There is a website called, whatproswear.com, that lists what MLB players wear, gear they wear, sponsorships they have, things like that. It would be neat to have a subsection here of 'What Pros Wear' that lists specifically gear and items of Professional Umpires, then update as they change as they change gear. I.E. Jerry Layne has started wearing a hardshell skully. Everything you find advertised as 'Umpire Skull Cap' is the All Star, or the Evo-Shield. I do believe he has a Rawlings on as far as I can tell. Then, if he changes, update his page. Just something that I've always been interested in as they pick different gloves, shoes, masks and harnesses specifically.

Got ya! Did not catch that:) And I know it’s not a force, I meant the tag up appeal;)

Bases loaded? Why didn't he just step on 2nd?....

I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing it's because they are playing 'possession'. Where if he doesn't have the ball in glove, you can't obstruct in any way.

I guess my thought was that while the fielder was moving to get the ball, his momentum carrying him to get in the way of the runner was him still in the act of making the play. If you're standing still, and jump to your right to reach for the ball, and come down, mid flight, and obstruct the runner, you'd still be in the act of making a play on that runner. Something like that. But I can see what you mean.

This... Ok...This make sense, and also addressed my thought process. You're completely correct in your assessment of my confusion. Without that 2nd paragraph addressing it, I was thinking this exact scenario. "If the umpire sees the obstruction, and calls it as soon as he recognizes it, he should be calling time...so, how could you award him an extra base when the rule clearly states one base from the previous occupied?" Most of the google searches I've found don't clearly address that 2nd paragraph, my question exactly, if a ball is in flight or there are other outlying forces. The way @maven mentioned it made sense, I just couldn't SEE the rule that belonged to that. I was only seeing the one base award. Thank you guys so much. @The Man in Blue I've only done softball umpiring the last 5 years....I'm just diving into this baseball world, so I totally know what you mean. Learning a lot of these new rulesets when I'm used to USA Softball has been the hardest problem.

I agree with your assessment, and that’s how it ‘should’ be. But if the rule says that the ball is dead for obstruction on that runner who they are making a play on for type 1, and he gets one base from the last touches, then how do we justify it by giving them an extra base? Even though that was the most likely outcome. I got myself twisted now [emoji17] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You’re right. I was looking through our state website and got confused.

This is what was getting me. I've only been studying the Type 1 vs Type 2. I believe Little League is always delayed now that I think about it.

I believe its NFSH, American Legion.

Just to clarify for myself: The one base award is from the time of the pitch, and the 2 base award is from the time the ball enters a dead ball area, correct?

Actual situation: R2, ball hit to 1st base where first baseman comes in to get it, throws toward 3rd where R2 was headed. 3rd baseman isn't in the base-path. Throw is high and wide, so it pulls him into the base-path and he collides with R2, (I would say the throw was right at the fielders glove, MAYBE slightly past the fielder when they collide), throw continues to go toward the short leftfield fence. Runner gets up, touches 3rd, and heads home. Left fielder, backing up the play, throws the runner out at home by a step. Since this was obstruction on a play being made on a runner, it should have been dead ball immediately, and runner placed on 3rd, correct? However, since it played out, and a dead ball was not called, and then it was clear that if the obstruction had not occurred the runner would have scored, do you handle it differently? What if the throw was clearly in front of the 3rd baseman when the obstruction occurred? Hypothetical situation, similar idea, but R1, ball hit to first base, R1 obstructed by 2nd baseman while the first baseman overthrows the ball and it goes way out into left center field. Still kill it and keep the runner on 2nd, when they would have easily had 3rd (or possibly even scored, although I wouldn't assume that probably)? I know that obstruction on a runner that the play is being made is a dead ball, but is there leeway for situations similar to this?

Think if it like, 'You are not allowed to pass a runner.', and not, 'You are not allowed to be passed.'

Dude, that’s exactly how I would describe it now that you say it.

This kids mom showed the batting teams coach a video of her taping her kid. The kid had a goofy type of swing where he dropped the bat head backwards and down before he pivoted forward. You ever see where some coaches have their kids start with the bat at a flat backwards angle, almost pointing straight backwards? It was similar to that, it's just where his swing went. Bat goes straight back and down before he swings. It just barely hit the kid right above the elbow on his swing.

This is my first year actually taking the test, getting certified, and actually doing games as an association umpire. So yes, the tracking stuff is something I need to work on for sure. I do indeed know the rule, and how it’s handled, but just didn’t catch it. I think the catcher was a little close, the very end of the bat hit him in the upper arm. I was indeed tracking the ball best I could, and didn’t see nor hear the glove, just missed it. I thought the same thing about putting the volunteer dad into a position he wasn’t comfortable with by volunteering myself to ask for his help. If the coach would have asked for his opinion, I would have went and asked, mostly since they were both things that he could have seen possibly, because I clearly did not. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was umping home plate, but the base ump was a volunteer dad type situation. There were two calls in particular that I'm not sure if I handled correctly: Little league intermediate, so there is leading off and stealing. Ruleset closer to High School, only slightly more advanced than majors. Leading off and stealing is allowed, so there isnt' time between every pitch like LLMajors. 1. Runners on first and 3rd after a base hit, pitcher goes back toward the mound, new batter comes up to the plate, catcher is still standing up, people are getting settled, runner are still on the base, I'm just assessing the situation, batter (JUST stepped in the box), I look up, and pitcher is picking the ball up off the ground. His rubber foot is off the ground as hes bending down to pick up the ball. The coach yells 'balk' and is coming out the gate to me. I call time and meet him. He says, 'The pitcher dropped the ball while on the rubber." I say, I didn't see him on the rubber. He said, he stepped on the rubber, and dropped the ball. I said, "I didn't see that.". He says, 'why would you take your eyes of the pitcher.?" I said, 'it was that moment between the previous play, and the next play, the catcher was standing right in front of me, runner were on the bag, batter had barely stepped in the box, I just wasn't staring at him that second." He is a bit huffy, i say, "I didn't see it, I'm not calling it. That's it." He walks away. My question is, in that moment, should I have said, 'let me ask my base umpire.', or should I have waited for him to ask me to ask the base umpire? 2. Similar outcome, batter hits an inside pitch, runs to first. I come around the catcher, and the batter-runner is thrown out at first from the shortstop. Coach comes out, and says, "He hit his glove, catcher interference." I say, I did not see that, looked like a clan hit to me." Coach says, 'he had to pick his glove off of the ground, how did you not see that?' I said, 'I didn't hear it, see it, I'm not calling it.' The coach walks back and that's the end of it. (I know the sound of the bat hitting the glove, and that was not it, looked like he hit the ball, didn't see anything out of the ordinary. I find out later that the end of the bat hit the catcher upper arm, so it didn't make a sound, and the catcher dropped his glove, the bat didn't hit the glove. I know it's interference anyways, but the usual indicator of the sound of the bat hitting the glove wasn't there.) So, should I have volunteered to ask the base umpire on my own, or wait until the coach asks me to ask him?

I'm confused on some of the responses here....it was a force out, he didn't need to make a tag. (I know you're applying the 'maintain control aspect). So, since it was a force out, if the slide was just standard base running, where he slid into the plate cleanly, and there was no intentional interference, you just let the play continue with nothing. However, if you deem the slide to be out of the ordinary, then with that retired runner causing interference, wouldn't you then call R2 out (the runner closest to home). So, it's either nothing, or R3 is out on the force, and R2 is out on the interference, correct? These are my interpretations, as I'm relatively new to the umping scene. Help me out:)