Interference, trailing runner put out

[ValleyUmp]

Longtime lurker, active umpire. NFHS rules. R1/R2, 2 out.

Clean, sharply hit single to the outfield. R2 rounds third. An accurate throw home beats R2 by 20 feet. R2 stops and reverses course.

In the ensuing rundown between 3B and HP, R2 is obstructed. PU properly calls and signals, "That's obstruction!" but it's NFHS (delayed dead ball) so play on. Note: No one involved in the play argued the obstruction call itself; everyone agreed it was genuine.

After the act of obstruction, R2 made it back to the 3B bag without being tagged out - only to find it occupied by R1.

R1, knowing the trail runner is the one in jeopardy whenever two runners occupy a base, now attempted to retreat to 2B. (The batter-runner had remained at 1B.) One quick snap throw and R1 is tagged out for Out #3.

Time is called. PU scores R2 on the obstruction and awards R1 third base, intending to continue play with R1/R3, 2 out.

DHC comes out to argue, saying R1 should've seen/heard the obstruction call and known he could remain on 3B; moreover, since it's a timing play and the 3rd out was recorded (on R1) before R2 could be awarded home, the inning should be over with no runs scoring. DHC is not profane, but his argument is persistent and prolonged - he's adamant PU has misapplied the rule - and PU ends up ejecting DHC.

Most of the umpires I've talked to say that neither one was right: R2's run award counts, then the third out applies and it's side retired.

Which of the three perspectives is correct? I was not personally involved but want to know the rulebook support.

[noumpere]

Well, the coach is wrong.

 

Either the umpire on the game OR the "other umpires" you asked could be correct.  8-3-2 says to "award bases that would nullify the obstruction."  That requires judgment and knowing the exact sequence of play.

[beerguy55]

19 hours ago, ValleyUmp said:

DHC is not profane, but his argument is persistent and prolonged - he's adamant PU has misapplied the rule - and PU ends up ejecting DHC.

This is why we protest - no need to persistently prolong anything.

19 hours ago, ValleyUmp said:

DHC comes out to argue, saying R1 should've seen/heard the obstruction call and known he could remain on 3B

Not really relevant, IMO.  We allow all kinds of "normal" baserunning regardless of what the runner should have been able to hear or know.  We allow R1 to return to first though he "should know" he was out at second.  We allow B/R to continue all the way around the base though he "should know" the fly ball was caught.  

19 hours ago, ValleyUmp said:

since it's a timing play and the 3rd out was recorded (on R1) before R2 could be awarded home, the inning should be over with no runs scoring.

My understanding is, since this is NFHS, the obstructed runner in this scenario is "guaranteed" home, so the timing of the third out doesn't matter.  Imagine a scenario where F2, without the ball, just completely plays halfback and blocks the runner who is trying to score, to give his team a chance to make a third out on another runner...

 

I'm scoring R2 and calling R1 out.  Nobody interfered with R1 - R1 ran the bases during a live ball and assumed the risks therein.

[Velho]

Similarly NFHS play I had brought to me where F5 OBA R2 sliding into 3B. U3 (4 man in this case) signaled OBS. R2 was tagged before the bag and assumed they were out so started to walk away. F5 chased her, small rundown and (original) R2 was tagged while off the base. Umpire let the out stand.

I'm interested to hear from the HS folk on how they think about "nullifying the obstruction" in these plays.

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Velho
Fixed R2/R3 confusion; NFHS

[jimurrayalterego]

57 minutes ago, Velho said:

Similarly I had a play brought to me where F5 OBA R2 sliding into 3B. U3 (4 man in this case) signaled OBS. R2 was tagged before the bag and assumed they were out so started to walk away. F5 chased her, small rundown and R3 was tagged while off the base. Umpire let the out stand.

I'm interested to hear from the HS folk on how they think about "nullifying the obstruction" in these plays.

 

Assuming R2 and R3 is the same runner and this was not NFHS, that would be Type 1 OBS and dead ball immediately with R2 awarded 3B. If NFHS I would think I would call the ball dead at the end of playing action which could be the original tag but if play was allowed to continue an award of 3B to R2 would nullify the OBS at the end of playing action.

[Velho]

21 minutes ago, jimurrayalterego said:

If NFHS I would think I would call the ball dead at the end of playing action which could be the original tag but if play was allowed to continue an award of 3B to R2 would nullify the OBS at the end of playing action.

Thanks. Too bad you weren't on this person's game. LOL. They called the runner out for being tagged off the bag.

What about OP?

[jimurrayalterego]

18 minutes ago, Velho said:

 

What about OP?

Need to have been there.