BLarson Posted March 31 Report Posted March 31 13U USSSA baseball. Had a game the other night where a couple pitches that I called a ball on the outside, the catcher would turn his head to his dugout and tap his helmet. I didn't think much of it in real time, but between innings when I had more time, I was wondering if he was just communicating to his coach, or doing it to mimic MLB catchers who want the called ball to be reviewed. I asked our assigner and he didn't think it was a big deal and "college catchers all have a secret signal to the dugout if they disagree with an umpire call". I get that, but this seems to me he's letting everyone know he didn't like it and would have it reviewed if he could Nothing? Something? Either way is fine, however, I wouldn't want the catcher consistently doing this on every ball he didn't like. Quote
wolfe_man Posted March 31 Report Posted March 31 A helmet tap is not secret... anymore. If it ever was a secret, it's out of the bag now. Now, as to what to do about it. I'm not sure you can do much officially here. If you mention something to F2 and he responds negatively, do you want an issue with him or the coach over it? My two cents, let it pass unless it's egregious or over-the-top. Quote
JonnyCat Posted March 31 Report Posted March 31 13U USSSA? Yeah, I'd have a word with that little bastard. I'd make sure he knew that if he was tapping on his helmet like a major or minor leaguer, he might not be long for this game. To me, it's no different than a player drawing a line in the dirt with his bat. JMO 5 1 1 Quote
The Man in Blue Posted April 1 Report Posted April 1 Interesting that I log on here to see this conversation . . . just had dinner after a game with one of my assignors (the one that I like -- just in case he is reading on here ). As we were watching a couple of the MLB games on, he brought this up. His approach was that NFHS will need to take a stance on this, probably sooner rather than later. We haven't encountered it yet, but you know it is coming. At first, he was a little ambivalent on it, but I turned the table and asked it this way: A batter draws the line outside . . . we see that as an immediate eject button. Knowing that we do not and will not have replay at this level, why would we consider the head tap to be anything other than expressing displeasure and attempting to show up the umpire? (I asked it this way knowing he had a game last year where they ejected a middle school kid for drawing the line.) Quote
Jay R. Posted April 1 Report Posted April 1 The Pennsylvania Interscholastic Athletic Association told baseball umpires not to tolerate it. First instance, team warning; subsequent ejection. 7 Quote
MadMax Posted April 2 Report Posted April 2 (edited) On 3/31/2026 at 2:42 PM, BLarson said: 13U USSSA baseball Oh how cute. Little nosewiper has finally stepped onto the 60-90 diamond, and he’s got himself a catching personal instructor / coach who’s taught him this crap, or he’s imitating the Big League catchers, thinking that because he’s now a tough teenager, he can get the adults riled up by being demonstrative. Yes, I have witnessed travel-ball parents (I call them “travel-ball invested parents”… either “travesties” or “Foul TIPs”… I’m mulling it over) try to impress upon the umpires – thru the fence – that they have video; or, barring that, they go track down the TD or Site-UIC, phone clutched in their hand, to show “just how bad (that) Blue is!” This is typical USSSA modus operandi, but not limited to just USSSA. Of course, since USSSA (prides itself!) on using OBR (predominantly), you get all manner of grief at amateur umpires expected to not only call rules-&-zones-meant-for-pro-adults-but-used-by-kids, but to treat those same kids on an ever-shifting scale ("too harsh, Blue! No feel!" – "that's a little kid zone you're calling, Blue! My players are savages!") While I agree you shouldn’t ignore it, I’d spar with it, implying that it is not effective, not applicable, not worth it, and should not continue. I’d rather channel the kid towards the futility of continuing or pursuing it, rather than going right to showing / detailing the nuclear option. I’d rather spar with the kid, saying things like “What’s that (gesturing) for?” or “You know that’s not going to work, right?” and have him tell his coach, “Blue’s on to us (or something to that effect)”, instead of, “Blue’s said he’s gonna eject me if I do ~this~ again”… because at whatever age < 18, it’ll always come off as I’m the big, bad Blue who doesn’t have a feel for the kids "just being kids". Edited April 2 by MadMax multiple spelling, grammatical, and structural errors corrected, due to travel 2 Quote
The Man in Blue Posted April 2 Report Posted April 2 Important detail that I need before weighing in on @MadMax’s take … How many fake gold chains is Tommy Nosewiper wearing? 1 Quote
grayhawk Posted April 2 Report Posted April 2 Was on a call with two prominent NCAA assigners tonight and they endorsed the IAWE protocol for these instances. 1 Quote
TheLovejoy Posted April 2 Report Posted April 2 I might quote it wrong, but I think on like the first or second page of the NFHS 2026 case book, it says first time is a team warning, second time is an ejection. Edit: I think I lied. I cannot find it in the case book anywhere. I'm not sure where I read this, but I explicitly remember seeing this for an NFHS case play, or example. Quote
StatsUmp Posted June 22 Report Posted June 22 On 3/31/2026 at 4:41 PM, wolfe_man said: Now, as to what to do about it. I'm not sure you can do much officially here. If you mention something to F2 and he responds negatively, do you want an issue with him or the coach over it? My two cents, let it pass unless it's egregious or over-the-top. Perhaps late to the party. Absent governing body guidance (as in @Jay R.'s post), a single instance of this in a game may likely depend the temperature of the game and its participants up to that point. The act could easily be ignored as the I in the IAWE protocol or lead to a discrete "Hey, we don't do that in high school," sort of comment to acknowledge the behavior and hopefully nip in in the bud. If it starts happening regularly during the game, this might rise to the prolonged portion of the the Three Ps and lead to a warning. On 4/2/2026 at 12:33 AM, TheLovejoy said: I might quote it wrong, but I think on like the first or second page of the NFHS 2026 case book, it says first time is a team warning, second time is an ejection. Edit: I think I lied. I cannot find it in the case book anywhere. I'm not sure where I read this, but I explicitly remember seeing this for an NFHS case play, or example. Is it possible this was a state-specific point of emphasis for you? My state occasionally issues its own POEs for issues not covered by the current year's NFHS POEs. 1 Quote
urout17 Posted June 22 Report Posted June 22 On 3/31/2026 at 10:17 PM, The Man in Blue said: Knowing that we do not and will not have replay at this level, Hmmm....not so fast... ua-intro.mp4 1 Quote
BLWizzRanger Posted June 22 Report Posted June 22 MYGOSH, if they ever implemented this here, I would take up a side business selling wooden sticks, pitchforks, ropes, horses, and anything else a mob would need to lynch an umpire. :25 - allowing the fan to pull up the pitches on a cell phone? Are they crazy? Displaying balls and strikes on the pole where everyone can see? That is ludicrous. Someone can shoot a 95 and miss that one pitch within the margin that allowed the winning run to score and everyone knows and all hell will come down on them. How about something more discrete so that only the umpires or the scorebox knows? 1 1 Quote
834k3r Posted June 22 Report Posted June 22 46 minutes ago, BLWizzRanger said: MYGOSH, if they ever implemented this here, I would take up a side business selling wooden sticks, pitchforks, ropes, horses, and anything else a mob would need to lynch an umpire. :25 - allowing the fan to pull up the pitches on a cell phone? Are they crazy? Displaying balls and strikes on the pole where everyone can see? That is ludicrous. Someone can shoot a 95 and miss that one pitch within the margin that allowed the winning run to score and everyone knows and all hell will come down on them. How about something more discrete so that only the umpires or the scorebox knows? I hope (pray?) it's a video from an April Fool's joke. No mention of the system on the Musco website, nor on their YT channel. No mention of it (on any reputable sites, anyway) via any links, either. Quote
Velho Posted June 22 Report Posted June 22 36 minutes ago, 834k3r said: No mention of the system on the Musco website, nor on their YT channel. No joke but not widely discussed. Supposedly done in partnership w/ LL & USSSA. https://site.ieee.org/central-iowa/home/ https://ua.musco.cloud/landing?fieldId=yd7omf https://ua.musco.cloud/quick-guide?fieldId=yd7omf Quote
BigBlue4u Posted June 22 Report Posted June 22 Here we are again, some of us over-reacting. If a catcher does that, ask him why he is doing it. After he explains, tell him not to do it again. If he does do it again, warn him he will be ejected the next time he does it. At an appropriate time, probably between innings, DO advise the coach. If he gives you any static tell him, "Coach, end of discussion, this is what we are doing today," 1 Quote
Jonump Posted June 23 Report Posted June 23 How about just saying "call is confirmed. You are out of challenges. Don't do that." 3 1 Quote
BigBlue4u Posted June 23 Report Posted June 23 1 hour ago, Jonump said: How about just saying "call is confirmed. You are out of challenges. Don't do that." That will work. 🙂 Quote
BLWizzRanger Posted June 23 Report Posted June 23 This is another pregame discussion. Get with your partner and agree that when the PU points to the BU and hollers 'Challenge', the BU automatically hollers 'Confirmed.' Or vice versa if a tag or force play was challenged as well. Why only let one of the crew have fun? 2 Quote
eddieq Posted June 23 Report Posted June 23 When I'm working solo and the DC disagrees with a banger at first, I appeal to the first base coach. Only had one of them say, "Yeah, my runner was out". Quote
Velho Posted June 23 Report Posted June 23 Playing devils advocate (sorry, that's my professional training coming through)... How is F2 tapping their helmer different than a batter drawing a line in the dirt for a strike call - which is widely accepted as instant ejection worthy? 1 Quote
MadMax Posted June 23 Report Posted June 23 3 hours ago, Velho said: How is F2 tapping their helmer different than a batter drawing a line in the dirt for a strike call - which is widely accepted as instant ejection worthy? As always, context matters. Age, game type, etc. are all factors to consider. Remember, back 2(?) seasons ago, when a MLB batter got Ejected for tapping the helmet w/o ABS Challenge being implemented in MLB yet? Where’d he pick that up? Atlantic League (at the time)… which was using ABS on MiLBUs. That batter had just been called up, and he did it out of learned reaction. Is that an excuse? No. Is that an explanation (as to why)? Yes! Should he have been ejected? Yes, he’s a pro – he should know better. But these are amateurs we’re talking about, and kids at that. Adults (eg. Men’s Amateur)? Eject ‘em, absolutely. Kids, though, are morons. I’m going to give the coach(es) an opportunity, albeit brief, to “rescue” and discipline the kid before I dump him. If we look at college ball, for example, I operate in an environment where I have a churning confluence of levels and rules. Not only do I have a hybrid of OBR and NCAA, but I’ve got NAIA and JUCo players playing alongside D-1 talent, who just came from a season / post-season that has video review. We don’t have video review (yet). Am I supposed to dump a Runner because he starts doing “the headphones” when I call him out at 2B? I don’t dispute the warrant; I bristle at the automatic, the imperative – “I (we) must eject you (amateur < adult)”. 3 1 Quote
MadMax Posted June 23 Report Posted June 23 3 hours ago, eddieq said: When I'm working solo and the DC disagrees with a banger at first, I appeal to the first base coach. You don’t use BCs for that! … … You send check-swing appeals to them! 2 Quote
eddieq Posted June 23 Report Posted June 23 6 minutes ago, MadMax said: You don’t use BCs for that! … … You send check-swing appeals to them! Yup - I've done that as well. They usually say, "no swing". 1 Quote
Velho Posted June 23 Report Posted June 23 15 minutes ago, MadMax said: As always, context matters. Completely. Story to illustrate: PG tournament in AZ when my son was playing. 14U. Teammate was smart (I'm sure he's an engineer now) and sweet but naive. Outside pitch called a strike. He held his bat out over the plate to absorb the fact and sort out how to hit it next time. Completely an internal exercise. Didn't say a word. PU lit him up pretty good. 1 Quote
stevis Posted June 24 Report Posted June 24 18 hours ago, MadMax said: You don’t use BCs for that! … … You send check-swing appeals to them! I just point my finger at my own chest. "Steve, did he go? No, he did not!" 1 1 Quote
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