I'm not crazy, right?

[spark2212]

This is a double play, right? Facebook is driving me crazy arguing that R3 is safe because the 3B didn't tag the bag on purpose. Girl's softball, technically (I don't know what level), but I assume this particular rule is the same in all standard baseball and softball rulesets. 
 

[Velho]

1 hour ago, spark2212 said:

This is a double play, right?

No, not in my opinion. A fielder's foot happening to touch the base while diving to catch the ball is not an "unmistakable appeal".

[Jimurray]

51 minutes ago, Velho said:

No, not in my opinion. A fielder's foot happening to touch the base while diving to catch the ball is not an "unmistakable appeal".

Appeals can not be accidental. Tags of forced bases or 1B can be. 

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, spark2212 said:

This is a double play, right? Facebook is driving me crazy arguing that R3 is safe because the 3B didn't tag the bag on purpose. Girl's softball, technically (I don't know what level), but I assume this particular rule is the same in all standard baseball and softball rulesets. 
 

Participating in a Facebook baseball rule discussion is crazy.  Maybe try one post to enlighten but do not then begin to argue with the idiots. 

[SeeingEyeDog]

I'm really not trying to stir the pot here but...

I have secure possession. I have the touch of 3B by the fielder's foot prior to the runner re-acquiring the bag. I have 2 outs. What am I missing? (Other than new glasses, perhaps?)

~Dawg

[DevildogUmp]

1 hour ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

I'm really not trying to stir the pot here but...

I have secure possession. I have the touch of 3B by the fielder's foot prior to the runner re-acquiring the bag. I have 2 outs. What am I missing? (Other than new glasses, perhaps?)

~Dawg

An unmistakable appeal. While we don't need to necessarily have a verbal "Mr. Umpire, I'm appealing" in every appeal (when a runner is retreating after a catch and a throw behind to that base, everyone understands that the defense is appealing), just landing on the base after a catch is not an unmistakable appeal.

[jimurrayalterego]

16 minutes ago, DevildogUmp said:

An unmistakable appeal. While we don't need to necessarily have a verbal "Mr. Umpire, I'm appealing" in every appeal (when a runner is retreating after a catch and a throw behind to that base, everyone understands that the defense is appealing), just landing on the base after a catch is not an unmistakable appeal.

There was an unmistakable appeal with the attempt at toe touch but it was after the runner got back. As you say the accidental touch of the base is not an appeal and why the fielder knew she needed to touch that toe.

[DevildogUmp]

At this point, the fielder is catching the ball (but I'm not going to rule possession yet as she is contacting the ground and the ball could pop loose). But both legs are in the air and the runner is diving back.

At this point, I probably have a catch and even though the fielder contacted the base coming down, that isn't the unmistakable appeal. If you notice, the fielder is now off the base and it looks to me like the runner is back to the bag with a hand. 

Now I have the fielder making the appeal with a toe tap on the bag and the runner is standing on the bag. It looks to me that runner corrected her running mistake (leaving early) prior to a valid appeal.

As an FYI, total time from these clips is 2 seconds. I'm not there and there is an umpire standing in D - I am going with their call on the field either way. 

[SeeingEyeDog]

Thanks...I appreciate the granularity.

~Dawg

[Velho]

11 hours ago, DevildogUmp said:

As an FYI, total time from these clips is 2 seconds. I'm not there and there is an umpire standing in D - I am going with their call on the field either way. 

Absolutely. If the umpire ruled out on appeal because they had the secondary toe stretch beat the runner, all good.

That said, if I recall correctly, it was upheld on replay review.

[Hambine]

I have a catch, an unintentional base touch, runner retouch.

Not being there I have the appeal not happening until she reaches back with her toe. Appeal denied.

Hypothetically, immediately after landing and after the runner retouches, F5 looks up and vocalizes the appeal based on landing on the base from her dive. Appeal granted or denied?

 

 

[Velho]

11 minutes ago, Hambine said:

Hypothetically, immediately after landing and after the runner retouches, F5 looks up and vocalizes the appeal based on landing on the base from her dive. Appeal granted or denied?

Granted. Safe/Out call made depending on runner location when F5 unmistakably verbalized the appeal.

[beerguy55]

OBR 5.09(c) Comment "An appeal should be...an act that unmistakably indicates an appeal to the umpire. A player, inadvertently stepping on the base with a ball in his hand, would not constitute an appeal."

This language in one form or another is present in every ruleset of softball and baseball as far as I've ever seen.

The "obvious" appeal comes from F5 after R3 gets back to the base.

Now, if you want to judge that F5 intended to have her leg hit the bag, and/or that she was fully intending to appeal during her process of the catch, and that her late toe-tap was simply a confirmation/affirmation of her original intent all along, then fine, I'll go with it.

 

 

[beerguy55]

On 3/10/2026 at 5:42 PM, Jimurray said:

Participating in a Facebook baseball rule discussion is crazy.  Maybe try one post to enlighten but do not then begin to argue with the idiots. 

The biggest issue with this particular Facebook debate is the number of people convinced that it is a "force play" and that it's not an "appeal" because "those happen after the play".

You can definitely see the delineation between those who have umped and/or read the rule book, and those who haven't...as far as knowing whether or not it's an appeal.  There's still a number of those who know it's an appeal but weren't aware that they can't be accidental.