JSam21 Posted July 2 Report Posted July 2 Having worked my first "real" game in the 4 umpire system in an NCAA regional this spring, I have started looking more into the 4 umpire system. For the members who have worked more than a handful of games in the system, let's talk about working 2nd base. What are your preferred starting positions with no one on? What are your keys? Any tips and tricks? I was starting opposite of the pull side. My thought was it gave me a wider field of view and more likely to keep balls in front of me while I moved into position at 2nd base. I have talked to some guys who have said the exact opposite and that they start on the pull side.
jimurrayalterego Posted July 2 Report Posted July 2 1 hour ago, JSam21 said: Having worked my first "real" game in the 4 umpire system in an NCAA regional this spring, I have started looking more into the 4 umpire system. For the members who have worked more than a handful of games in the system, let's talk about working 2nd base. What are your preferred starting positions with no one on? What are your keys? Any tips and tricks? I was starting opposite of the pull side. My thought was it gave me a wider field of view and more likely to keep balls in front of me while I moved into position at 2nd base. I have talked to some guys who have said the exact opposite and that they start on the pull side. Other than R3 exception, young and nimble use the pull side. Old/or not nimble or stiff necks use opposite the pull side. When inside always deep B. Just saw an MLB overturn of a play at 2B which ump using that outside position.
JSam21 Posted July 2 Author Report Posted July 2 1 hour ago, jimurrayalterego said: Other than R3 exception, young and nimble use the pull side. Old/or not nimble or stiff necks use opposite the pull side. When inside always deep B. Just saw an MLB overturn of a play at 2B which ump using that outside position. I understand some use the pull side... but why? What is the advantage?
MadMax Posted July 2 Report Posted July 2 (edited) 4 hours ago, JSam21 said: What are your preferred starting positions with no one on? What are your keys? Any tips and tricks? I was taught U2 by two of the best (IMO) – one of them is a (dormant) U-E member, while the other… well, don’t want to drop names in public… was a CWS CC this year. Both of them have/had me starting opposite the pull side (away from power). Your considerations are valid, but both gentlemen also noted to consider the F8 (center fielder); he will (the majority of time) position himself to the pull side, or to power. Thus, I would be out of his line of sight. Then, the emphasized tip, or trick is to hook the bag (2B) and “enter the infield” opposite the side the batted ball exited. So, batted ball to left, sure base hit in the gap, I cross over the 1B-2B baseline, and go to approximately B-deep / 1B-side of the 2B cutout; bag is thus between me and the origin of the throw. Batted ball to right, I go to the backside (LF / 3B side) of 2B, and work the bag so as to lineup the bag between me and the origin of the throw. Of course, anything TB between F7 → and ← F9 is GO/SO. If anything is fielded by an infielder, I am headed to the “backside” of 2B, because if there is a throwing error, the next origin of throw will come from 1B’ish anyway. Quote I understand some use the pull side... but why? What is the advantage? Perhaps it’s for GO/SO purposes? TFBs more likely that direction, especially challenging the boundary (outfield wall)? Edited July 2 by MadMax Added possible explanation for use of pull side positioning. 4
BigBlue4u Posted July 2 Report Posted July 2 I will say this about working second base with a four-man crew: With a runner at second, be in the "B" position. That way, you have a clear look at any pickoffs from the pitcher. Too many umpires, used to working two-man, want to be in the C, which is OK in two-man. Also, being in the C is going to pretty much straight-line you on a pickoff throw. With an umpire at third, there is no reason to be in C with a runner at second. 1
grayhawk Posted July 3 Report Posted July 3 Can we just call it the spray side to save keystrokes? Also, @JSam21, congrats on the regional! 1
Richvee Posted July 3 Report Posted July 3 I had my first real 4 man assignment this year, and I went to an MLB guy for some advice. He suggested pull side. Your middle infielders will be shifted a bit to the pull side. Staying pull side keeps you from being behind the middle infielder. Think LHB, if you set up LF side, (non pull side). F6 is probably shaded up the middle. Now you lose your view of a low line drive at F6, and you're a lot farther way from F4 for the same play, who is probably closer to the 1B side hole. In general, staying pull side starts you off more equidistant between your MI's with better views of the top of the laces. There's no right/wrong answer. Purely preference. 1 1
JSam21 Posted July 28 Author Report Posted July 28 So after some talk with MLB and P5 umpires who obviously work WAY more 4 Umpire system than I do, the suggestion that I got from all of them was, start on the same side, regardless of pull. So I started off the left hip of F6 all night. Gave me a short run to the back side of 2nd and a shorter path to get inside without having to cross the BR's path. 1 1
ilyazhito Posted July 30 Report Posted July 30 On 7/2/2025 at 5:57 PM, BigBlue4u said: I will say this about working second base with a four-man crew: With a runner at second, be in the "B" position. That way, you have a clear look at any pickoffs from the pitcher. Too many umpires, used to working two-man, want to be in the C, which is OK in two-man. Also, being in the C is going to pretty much straight-line you on a pickoff throw. With an umpire at third, there is no reason to be in C with a runner at second. Wouldn't you be in either Deep B or Deep C? I remember that when I worked in the 3-umpire system as U3, I would be in Deep B for R1. I would be in the regular C position for R1/R3, and R1/R2(R3). The reason I would be in Deep B with R1 as U3 or as U1 in an R2/R3 situation is to be able to turn around quickly and be in position for the throw to 2B. A U2 in the 4-umpire system could be at Deep B or Deep C with runners on, because he does not have to worry about covering plays at other bases before the pitch. Would Deep C straight line an umpire the same way that the regular C position does?
Velho Posted July 30 Report Posted July 30 5 hours ago, ilyazhito said: Would Deep C straight line an umpire the same way that the regular C position does? C with R2 puts you in line of fire of a pickoff. As you said -we've got a U3. No need to go to C. B is the best position when inside. P.S. Go outside with R3 only.
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