D3K

[HumblePie]

I've mentioned before that I was out of the game for 5 years, so forgive me for asking a question that may be obvious to many of you. 

When MLB fixed the D3K rule back in 2006, it was made clear that if a batter "gives himself up" by walking out of the dirt circle around home plate, he is to be called out. I know for a fact that FED did not follow suit for the next 12 years.

WHAT IS THE FED RULE TODAY? 

I would appreciate both a rulebook reference and a casebook reference. Thank you.

 

 

[MadMax]

Don’t have anything paper available to me on the road… 

*mutter* Oh, it’s a digital age! *grumble* Get with the times, Fed! *mutter* 

The Batter only “gives himself up” when he enters the dugout, or otherwise leaves LBT. 

[Velho]

4-1-i 

 

The way I remember it is : dugout, dugout, circle, circle for LL, HS, College, Pro

[Thatsnotyou]

When no one seems to be paying attention or understand signals - usually a travel game - I’ve waited until a player steps into the dugout and then signal an out. Once in a while someone sees that and asks me what I was doing. Then they learn something, which is fun. 

[jimurrayalterego]

1 hour ago, Thatsnotyou said:

 

- usually a travel game -   

Wouldn't a travel game be the circle?

But let's agree on the initial signal. I go with what MLB did after Eddings fiasco. Right arm out, I think I point but sometimes flat hand. Only had one rec coach ask me about it. Otherwise HS and upper they know what's happening. Yes, the verbal needs to be used for F2 and the batter if there is any doubt but most of the time even your signal is not needed.

Does anyone still use a safe? Downside being that you signal no catch and then F2 picks up the ball and tags and you reverse to out.

[SeeingEyeDog]

1 hour ago, jimurrayalterego said:

Right arm out, I think I point but sometimes flat hand.

My information may be out of date but, the last camp I was at 2 years ago...that is precisely what we were taught. Previously, we were doing right arm straight out and pointer finger pointing down at the ground (but, NOT pointing AT the baseball...just generically...down..."Hey Chewie...fly casual...") with the verbal, "Ball is down! Ball is down!" but that was then changed to what you describe here @jimurrayalterego. What I refer to now as a "half-safe sign" with right arm extended, fingers together and palm down with 2 pumps, hinged from the elbow and the verbal, "No catch! No catch!"

While we're on the subject...remember, if you think you need a check-swing appeal on a U3K? You do not need to wait for the formal appeal from the defense or their coach. You can go to your partner on that directly. Be sure to pre-game that, too if you or your partner have any unfamiliarity with that kind of play.

~Dawg

[Thatsnotyou]

On 6/25/2025 at 10:55 PM, jimurrayalterego said:

Wouldn't a travel game be the circle?

Most travel games default to Fed rules with whatever league or tournament adjustments they put in there. 

[834k3r]

On 6/25/2025 at 8:55 PM, jimurrayalterego said:

Does anyone still use a safe? Downside being that you signal no catch and then F2 picks up the ball and tags and you reverse to out.

Our association's direction is to use the safe signal. To clarify things, when F2 picks up the ball and tags the BR I'll point to the tag and make the out signal.

12 hours ago, Thatsnotyou said:

Most travel games default to Fed rules

Here, most travel ball games are under OBR with modifications.

[MadMax]

31 minutes ago, 834k3r said:

Our association's direction is to use the safe signal.

Your association is making things too complicated. 

Simply and definitively point out to the side. Clear the catcher / make read steps so you can see any tag attempts. Then, as the BR departs, headed for 1B, adjust your position so you can observe potential RLI. 

In regards to vocal / audible information for this call, I condition each catcher I work with – each and every one, regardless of level – that if he hears me say / call "Caught!" on a potential U3K, he (F2) has it as a Catch. If he doesn't hear me say anything, then the BR needs to be retired (tagged, put out at 1B, HP is touched if Bases Loaded, et. al.). I and other umpires have found this to be much more effective than declaring "No catch! No catch!", because even if I say "Caught!", and neither the BR nor the F2 hear me, they're not put at a disadvantage in attempting to obtain 1B / put out the BR. 

[DevildogUmp]

On 6/27/2025 at 1:35 PM, MadMax said:

Your association is making things too complicated. 

Simply and definitively point out to the side. Clear the catcher / make read steps so you can see any tag attempts. Then, as the BR departs, headed for 1B, adjust your position so you can observe potential RLI. 

In regards to vocal / audible information for this call, I condition each catcher I work with – each and every one, regardless of level – that if he hears me say / call "Caught!" on a potential U3K, he (F2) has it as a Catch. If he doesn't hear me say anything, then the BR needs to be retired (tagged, put out at 1B, HP is touched if Bases Loaded, et. al.). I and other umpires have found this to be much more effective than declaring "No catch! No catch!", because even if I say "Caught!", and neither the BR nor the F2 hear me, they're not put at a disadvantage in attempting to obtain 1B / put out the BR. 

Just out of curiosity, how are you conditioning the catcher? I sometimes can't get catchers to understand that if they set up behind the outside batter's box, it isn't a strike even though they stuck the straight fastball.

[MadMax]

How do I condition a catcher for this? 👇🏼 

12 hours ago, DevildogUmp said:

I sometimes can't get catchers to understand that if they set up behind the outside batter's box, it isn't a strike even though they stuck the straight fastball.

Simple – “Ball… Out!” 
Supplemental conditioning – “That’s out”, or, “Didn’t get the plate”, or “You set up off the plate, you’re not going to get it”. 

12 hours ago, DevildogUmp said:

Just out of curiosity, how are you conditioning the catcher?

You know how some PUs will introduce themselves to catchers, and yammer on and on about “your (catcher’s) job is to protect me… “ blah blah blah ? Or, go over the catalog of pitches that F1 claims to be able to throw (if he ain’t lyin’, then he sure is exaggeratin’!)? 

Yeah… I don’t do that 🐂 💩. 

Instead, as I dry rehearse my stance during warmup pitches, I say this, “Well, Hayden, the way I work is remarkably simple. If you hear me say “Caught!” on a potential uncaught 3rd strike… you have it as a catch. However, if you don’t hear me say anything, you need to retire him. Make sense?”… and the overwhelming majority of responses are, “Yessir!” 

… and a few memorable times, it’s been, “Man, that is easy!”