FED, Head Coach is verbally "burying" his team in the dugout

[SeeingEyeDog]

On the one hand, I'm hoping someone has seen this and I can get some perspective. On the other hand, I don't wish ANYONE to EVER see something like this...

Varsity game, 2-man and I am on the bases. The HT is a strong second tier team in my market with first tier aspirations. The VT is an average team of scrappers. On paper, the HT is superior but, we don't play baseball games on paper...

We've just finished the top of the 5th and the VT leads 1-0. On the changeover, the HT's head coach calls out, "I'd like everyone in the dugout right now..." I'm in A and my partner is on the edge of the dirt circle. The VT is starting to come out on the field and begin warmups. Once everyone is in the dugout for the HT, the head coach unloads with a profanity laced verbal beatdown of his team. There was no music being played on the PA and there was a total hush over the entire stands on both sides of the field. The VT stopped warming up and the players were all either giggling at each other or staring at each other with their eyes and mouths wide open...

A few moments later with the HT head coach still going full throttle, F2 brings it down and out comes the leadoff batter for the HT and we get the game going which the VT would go on to win 9-1.

I talked with my partner about it in post-game and full confession...I do NOT feel good about this. I do NOT feel good about the fact that we did nothing. Player or coach drops profanities on the field, that's an easy warning and nobody in my market would ever challenge or complain about that.

Despite the fact that I do not feel good about this...the HC and his team are in THEIR dugout. That is THEIR space. We are taught that umpires don't stick their heads in dugouts. I feel like we should have made an exception here...

Ok, having said all of this...what was the best approach here? Do we do a soft approach and simply say, "Excuse me, Coach...we need a batter."? Is it, "Coach, that's enough, please...it's time to resume the game." or do we come off the top rope with, "Coach, this is a warning for sportsmanship violation, if you continue you will be ejected." This is an old school coach who would've no doubt taken offense to "violating" his space and our presence would have likely inflamed an already volatile situation and lead to an ejection which he would have appealed and won on the grounds of, "...the umpires were the aggressors here. Had they not violated my dugout space, I would not have been provoked and gotten ejected." This was a complex, intense situation and regardless of how I might feel about "inflaming a situation", I really feel like we let The Game down and more importantly let the kids down by not shutting this down. Mr. Sulu, engage flame shield...what do you have, brothers?

~Dawg

[834k3r]

11 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

On the changeover...I'm in A

I'm always between 1B and 2B on the fringe during the changeover. Being in A during the changeover is dangerous IMHO.

When I'm on the plate, I loudly announce when there are two pitches left in the warmup. If I was in your OP situation, I'd do the same, then loudly (not angrily) ask for a batter. Personally, how you and your partner handled it is how I would have. Karma will come back to bite the coach at some point.

[noumpere]

I can't remember if it's the basketball or the baseball case book that has a case play similar to the OP.  Fed says to penalize it.

 

At the very least, this should be a "special report" to the state (or whatever your state calls it).

[SeeingEyeDog]

2 hours ago, 834k3r said:

I'm always between 1B and 2B on the fringe during the changeover. Being in A during the changeover is dangerous IMHO.

When I'm on the plate, I loudly announce when there are two pitches left in the warmup. If I was in your OP situation, I'd do the same, then loudly (not angrily) ask for a batter. Personally, how you and your partner handled it is how I would have. Karma will come back to bite the coach at some point.

Yup...normally I do the "back of the infield grass" bit between 1B and 2B too but, I had gone over to get a drink at the fence and returned to deep A for the rest of warmups when the tirade started. You are absolutely correct...that can be a dangerous place. And yes, my partner did the "two more" bit to F2 which he said loud enough for the dugout to hear. Delay of the resumption of the game would have been an optimal moment to interrupt the coach but, his batter came out promptly following F2 bringing it down.

~Dawg

[Velho]

If this were Pro ball, we wouldn't give it a second thought. Many would even get a chuckle out of it.

In LL, I'd shut it down a I held back steam coming out my ears.

The question I come back to often is where does the shift in that behavior happen as players advance (and how quickly).

I'd like to think the HS scholastic mission would allow for shutting this down. Of course, I'd also like to think that about college...

[SH0102]

First, this is a report to your league/commission. In Ohio there is a place to report things like conduct, facilities, etc, both good and bad. While your state may differ in forms/reports, you absolutely can report this up the ladder.

Agreed that pro ball is different but in HS, sportsmanship is required and that ain’t it.

If that’s a public school, where coach is being funded with tax dollars, I sincerely doubt that is accepted by the AD and principal, especially if the HS coach is also a teacher/counselor/etc

If it’s a private school, then he’s violating their religious policies.

At a minimum, submit a report that the level of cursing and animosity towards the kids made you uncomfortable. Leave out anything that is subjective, such as “he was awful to the kids”.  While likely true, that is subjective and can be argued .  “Here are the facts , here is what was said (don’t temper it down, be exact), it was at a decibel level loud enough to be heard across the field, and it made me uncomfortable”

that can’t be refuted. What they do with it is out of your hands 

[dumbdumb]

just about all league representatives verbally would say that they want you to address this situation, but what happens is a totally different situation. many would get blackballed. this should be no different than the state or league finals with all the top brass hanging right beside both dugouts. you dont think if they know you are hearing this which means they are hearing this and you do not address this you will ever work the state finals again. well think again. it should be the same situation during in season games but of course we know it is not. it takes local intestinal fortitude at all levels of all administrators to handle this. good luck. all officials would eject if they knew leadership had their back but they don't.

once again add nauseum, what if a teacher did this in the classroom, what if your boss did this at work. is this what all of us let bosses get away with everywhere. where are the HR guys to let you know what would happen at their compnies and would they want it reported or just a blind eye turned. and would hr officials at companies turn a blind eye to it and fire or blackball a person for reporting this without having to use a tip line for animinity, so they will not be blackballed or shunned or taken off the fast track.

good luck. that's some of the reason those umpires with the intestinal fortitude in these situations always are getting hammered and yelled at for what's the term, just to be in the headlines, just trying to inject yourself in the game for no reason, rabbit ears, etc, etc.

this league below wants it handled, and you could also add profanity audible to the stands to the cause. imagine as a parent having to be asked by a four year old about the profanity words or repeating them loudly after just hearing them, and now the parent has to explain on the way home. if coaches dont do this then parents dont have a situation to deal with. did the parents report this coach like they should. would they let coach do this in classroom, would they let their boss talk like this to them?

https://royhobbs.com/world-series/rules-guidelines/playing-rules

[UMP45]

On 5/9/2025 at 1:16 AM, SeeingEyeDog said:

On the one hand, I'm hoping someone has seen this and I can get some perspective. On the other hand, I don't wish ANYONE to EVER see something like this...

Varsity game, 2-man and I am on the bases. The HT is a strong second tier team in my market with first tier aspirations. The VT is an average team of scrappers. On paper, the HT is superior but, we don't play baseball games on paper...

We've just finished the top of the 5th and the VT leads 1-0. On the changeover, the HT's head coach calls out, "I'd like everyone in the dugout right now..." I'm in A and my partner is on the edge of the dirt circle. The VT is starting to come out on the field and begin warmups. Once everyone is in the dugout for the HT, the head coach unloads with a profanity laced verbal beatdown of his team. There was no music being played on the PA and there was a total hush over the entire stands on both sides of the field. The VT stopped warming up and the players were all either giggling at each other or staring at each other with their eyes and mouths wide open...

A few moments later with the HT head coach still going full throttle, F2 brings it down and out comes the leadoff batter for the HT and we get the game going which the VT would go on to win 9-1.

I talked with my partner about it in post-game and full confession...I do NOT feel good about this. I do NOT feel good about the fact that we did nothing. Player or coach drops profanities on the field, that's an easy warning and nobody in my market would ever challenge or complain about that.

Despite the fact that I do not feel good about this...the HC and his team are in THEIR dugout. That is THEIR space. We are taught that umpires don't stick their heads in dugouts. I feel like we should have made an exception here...

Ok, having said all of this...what was the best approach here? Do we do a soft approach and simply say, "Excuse me, Coach...we need a batter."? Is it, "Coach, that's enough, please...it's time to resume the game." or do we come off the top rope with, "Coach, this is a warning for sportsmanship violation, if you continue you will be ejected." This is an old school coach who would've no doubt taken offense to "violating" his space and our presence would have likely inflamed an already volatile situation and lead to an ejection which he would have appealed and won on the grounds of, "...the umpires were the aggressors here. Had they not violated my dugout space, I would not have been provoked and gotten ejected." This was a complex, intense situation and regardless of how I might feel about "inflaming a situation", I really feel like we let The Game down and more importantly let the kids down by not shutting this down. Mr. Sulu, engage flame shield...what do you have, brothers?

~Dawg

In NC, this would be a no brainer. NC has zero tolerance for profanity. If it was loud enough for the fans to hear it then we have an EJ. But, that is NC.

[The Man in Blue]

On 5/9/2025 at 12:16 AM, SeeingEyeDog said:

Despite the fact that I do not feel good about this...the HC and his team are in THEIR dugout. That is THEIR space. We are taught that umpires don't stick their heads in dugouts. I feel like we should have made an exception here...

 

Except that is isn't.  If he wants it in his dugout, he needs to keep it in his dugout.  If he is that loud, it is no longer in their dugout.  You didn't stick your head anywhere, HE brought it to you.

Also, to refute the notion that the dugout is sacrosanct: Do you let them yell whatever they want at an umpire as long as they do it in their dugout?  No.

I've only had that happen once to the extent that I felt we needed to step in.  It was early in my career and was a 12u softball tournament with a 9am start on a Sunday morning.  It was already 90+ at 9am and was going to be a brutal, miserable day.  Coach felt the need to berate his pitcher mercilessly in the pitching circle.  In his profanity laced tirade, he demanded to know "Do you even want to be here?!"  I approached with, "Coach, nobody wants to be here under these conditions." and immediately followed it up with a threat.  Now, I have learned better and would never do it this way.  The next thing I said was, " . . . and if you say another word to your team that way, you will be the lucky one who goes home early.  Your conference is over, go sit down."  

Fortunate for me, he did not offer any resistance to me.  Had he escalated, I would have been out of my depth at that point in my career.

Looking back, not the best way to handle it.  However, I unquestionably believed something had to be done.  Sportsmanship also applies to your own team.

[Velho]

39 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

However, I unquestionably believed something had to be done.  Sportsmanship also applies to your own team.

This is one of the biggest reasons I only do LL (as opposed to HS since I'll never do travel). As I've climbed the experience curve*, I've gotten more comfortable with saying something. Have done it three times this year. Nothing to the degree of above - though that'd be straightforward to handle in LL given the mission and structure.

* Or I've simply gotten older