The games you KNOW there are going to be trouble...

[ErichKeane]

So, I haven't really been doing my 'local' town this year (despite this being what I got started in!) thanks to some questions on my schedule due to my Wife's soccer commitments, and them recruiting a bunch of HS students to give it a shot!  BUT, Thursday night I get a call: "Can you do bases for our Senior National game on Tuesday (last night), we had a dust-up on the game tonight, and the same teams are playing again, this time at home?".  Typically the town can't afford to do 2 man, despite it being 14U (Fed rules), but they are making an exception to prevent problems here.  Mixed with this being a 'special event' with a food cart and 3 games at once, etc, there is a fear of this being a problem night.

So, OH BOY.  Small town, so about 3 times I get pulled aside in town to be 'warned' about how bad the 'other team's behavior is.  Day before the game I'm working a different game, and the to-be-in-my-game HTHC finds me leaving the field and gives me the scoop/back-story (plus an additional warning).  Seemingly there was a lot of fan-to-fan chirping, fan-to-coach, coach-to-fan, and coach-to-coach.  AFTER the game (and the umpires had left), the to-be-in-my-game VTHC went over to the opposing fans and started a screaming match (at least according to the fans' coach!).  Fans' coach gets suspended, arguing coach gets nothing, so I suspect I wasn't getting the full story.

Turn to Tuesday, my partner and I have a quick pre-game thanks to him coming from work, but its a guy who works a ton of these games. Game starts off going well enough, though every time there is a slide, the coaches are yelling "call time out!" and the players are asking for it, despite it not being necessary (ball already going back to pitcher, etc).  So I just keep saying, "No, walk it up.".  I do this about 20 times between the two teams as the game goes on.  Individual kids seem to be learning, but the coaches aren't.

Side note:   MY PU tells me between innings at one point during this how both the VT-F2 and VTHC are getting annoying about the zone.  VTHC is doing the "where was that one?" on just about every ball call, and F2 has given him some flak about a strike-zone call at one point (F2 was told to shush, and did at least).  BUT, he's been tolerating VTHC, occasionally ignoring his pleas for explanation.

Moving on, its top of the inning (5th I think?).  Some play happens, I end up at 3B and call the VT runner 'safe'.  Coach does the "ask for time", player asks, and I say, "No, walk it up" as I've been doing all game.  The ball is far away from the base being thrown back to the pitcher anyway. 

VTHC(/3BC): "You aren't going to give him time?"
Me: "No"
VTHC: "What?  You aren't going to give him time?  Why?"
Me: "No, he doesn't need it."
VTHC: "You aren't going to give him time?  What's your problem?!"
Me: (lost temper a touch, so got sassy, I regret this..) "No, I'm not giving him time, this isn't softball, you don't get time just because your pants are dirty.  Lets play."

Then I walked back to C.  VTHC then walks down the 3BL yelling time, and goes to talk to my partner and loudly starts complaining that I didn't give him time. 

I walk back towards him and say, "No, you do not get to argue my decisions with a different umpire."
VTHC: "You didn't listen to me, so I went to the plate ump!"
Me: "No, you don't get to umpire-shop for calls, go back to your coaches box now."
VTHC: *grumble * grumble * grumble.

I walk back, and we continue.  During a pitching change in the inning, PU and I discuss it, and he tells me, "I was just about to tell him he couldn't talk to me about your call... also, he was giving you some nasty glares on the way back to the box, 1 more of those and I was going to toss him!".

Inning ends.  I go grab my water from the 1B fence, turn around, and see VTHC talking with PU.  I get a few steps towards the plate, and my partner has tossed VTHC.  The conversation went with:
VTHC: *explains his grumpiness*
PU: "That is my base-umps call, you need to talk to him.  I am not going to undercut my umpire. "
VTHC: "Well maybe you should."
PU: "I'm not going to undercut my umpire."
VTHC: "Well you should dammit!" <while walking away>

He got tossed right then.  I ended up stepping in at that point, stepped between, and pointed him out through the dugout with a "You need to leave the property.  Go now."  A little bit of a grumble of, "But I am right!", and off he goes.

The backup coach was more reasonable, but we had 2 'tough' calls in the bottom of the last inning (HT won by 10RR) that went against him.  1 I'm sure my partner got right (a play at the plate where the ball beat the catcher, but instead of tagging, just put the glove on the plate, runner apparently stepped around it), and 1 I'm sure I flubbed (R1,R2,R3, I called IFF, F5 missed the ball, then chased R2 to 3B, where I got the call right.  Behind me, R1 (now on 2nd) hears the dugout yelling "he didn't tag up!", so starts running back.  I book it across the field to follow the throw, but am still only just past the mound when the head first slide back to 1B mixed with a tag and a cloud of dust all happen, so I don't see enough to call out, so I call safe.  VT bench (including both remaining coaches) start yelling about how he tagged his hand, but I ignored and we continued the game.

After the game, he ended up snubbing both of us on the handshakes

APPARENTLY the head of the organization was there, and pulled us aside afterwards to hear our 'side'.  As much of you are about to do, just about every other sentence we spoke was responded to with, "oh, so thats when you tossed him?". 
 

[wolfe_man]

But more money would make it all better, right?    Just kidding, pulling up a thought from another post.  

 

Kudos to you for doing the game.  I am glad that you had a partner that had your back and vice versa.  Every time I have to toss anyone, it feels like I've got zero support and may as well be alone out there.

Hope the rest of your summer goes better!

[ErichKeane]

You ain't wrong... maybe the more money would make it WORTH it (though, I'm likely to donate my checks from this org back to the org anyway), but obviously not better.

All things considered, this went better than expected. After the ejection (about 2 minutes later), I saw the coach standing in the parking lot, and went to his backup coach and told him he needed to be 'off the property, and where I cannot see or hear him' who passed it on/got him to stand across the street, but I had a fan start yelling 'what is he supposed to do!?!' (plus some grumbling), but I did the stop-hand-shake thing and sternly said 'no', which resulted in the fan saying, "oh, sorry" and everyone quieted down immediately.  I was for sure positive that any ejection was going to have a second behind it, but between the two of us, we kept it calm. 

 

Another side note: The food cart they had in (lobster rolls!) for this special event was closing up about 2 minutes before the game ended, so by the time I got off they field, they were closed/just closing up their door!  Fortunately they felt bad for me and were willing to make me a pair (one for the wife of course!)  of sandwiches to take home.

Overall, good day at the park

 

[The Man in Blue]

The only thing you should have said when rodeo clowning him off the field was, “We kept telling you to talk to me.  See what happens when you talk to him?”

[wolfe_man]

3 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

The only thing you should have said when rodeo clowning him off the field was, “We kept telling you to talk to me.  See what happens when you talk to him?”

You just can't work with some people!

[SH0102]

Why are you waiting for handshakes with coaches ?  Get off the field, especially after a contentious game.  If a coach comes to shake my hand as I’m headed for the exit, I’ll quickly and professionally oblige, but I do not go looking for one.

 

[ErichKeane]

1 minute ago, SH0102 said:

Why are you waiting for handshakes with coaches ?  Get off the field, especially after a contentious game.  If a coach comes to shake my hand as I’m headed for the exit, I’ll quickly and professionally oblige, but I do not go looking for one.

 

We're responsible to keep an eye on the post-game handshakes to prevent/document any goings on there as well (at least in our organization).  We're told to not leave the field until the teams are back in their dugouts/down the lines/etc.  I usually stand right at the mound while doing it (as trained), which keeps me away from the teams, but my partner stayed right behind home plate so we were much closer this time.

[SH0102]

17 minutes ago, ErichKeane said:

We're responsible to keep an eye on the post-game handshakes to prevent/document any goings on there as well (at least in our organization).  We're told to not leave the field until the teams are back in their dugouts/down the lines/etc.  I usually stand right at the mound while doing it (as trained), which keeps me away from the teams, but my partner stayed right behind home plate so we were much closer this time.

Interesting. You do what you’re told, so obviously that makes sense

[MadMax]

24 minutes ago, ErichKeane said:

We're responsible to keep an eye on the post-game handshakes to prevent/document any goings on there as well (at least in our organization).  We're told to not leave the field until the teams are back in their dugouts/down the lines/etc.

Recipe for disaster. 

In no way should this responsibility be on you (the umpires), Erich. As much as I bemoan Little League, as an organization, they at least have the infrastructure of designated officers and individuals that keep each other in check. 

It’s an abject shame that adults – adults – cannot be trusted, and that you (umpires) are burdened with not only game integrity, but chaperoning grown adults. No wonder new, youthful umpires don’t want to remain in baseball… we’ve potentially got kids burdened with the unwanted responsibility of observing grown adults. 

Pathetic. That baseball organization needs to have its priorities upended. 

4 hours ago, ErichKeane said:

The food cart they had in (lobster rolls!) for this special event was closing up about 2 minutes before the game ended, so by the time I got off they field, they were closed/just closing up their door!

Wait a sec… they (barely) had enough money for a second umpire, but the clientele they anticipate were willing to purchase lobster 🦞 rolls???!! 🤨

World’s gone mad. 

[ErichKeane]

4 minutes ago, MadMax said:

Recipe for disaster. 

In no way should this responsibility be on you (the umpires), Erich. As much as I bemoan Little League, as an organization, they at least have the infrastructure of designated officers and individuals that keep each other in check. 

It’s an abject shame that adults – adults – cannot be trusted, and that you (umpires) are burdened with not only game integrity, but chaperoning grown adults. No wonder new, youthful umpires don’t want to remain in baseball… we’ve potentially got kids burdened with the unwanted responsibility of observing grown adults. 

Pathetic. That baseball organization needs to have its priorities upended. 

Wait a sec… they (barely) had enough money for a second umpire, but the clientele they anticipate were willing to purchase lobster 🦞 rolls???!! 🤨

World’s gone mad. 

You're absolutely right about the 1st part... the more that happens, the more they tend to push things onto the officials to pay attention to.  We can't even trust coaches/parents to not have a screaming fit at eachother after a game (the whole reason I was asked to do bases at this game!), and we're counting on some teenager to stick around and control/report on it.  Its absurd.  I guess from their perspective, at least we'll have SOMEONE they can trust (the official) paying attention and letting them know who needs suspension?

And yes, a $22 lobster roll was pretty dang spendy.  I spent 2/3 of my game-check buying my wife and I dinner after!  But the local town (the top level organization doesn't handle umpires or fields)'s youth sports is always in trouble for money, they basically spend all of it on umpires and field maintenance, and most of the field stuff is volunteer on top of that.  The world is indeed mad.

[The Man in Blue]

1 hour ago, SH0102 said:

Why are you waiting for handshakes with coaches ?  Get off the field, especially after a contentious game.  If a coach comes to shake my hand as I’m headed for the exit, I’ll quickly and professionally oblige, but I do not go looking for one.

 

Honestly, it surprises me more orgs don't require us to monitor the handshake.  I'm not saying I like the idea, just that it surprises me.

Our (former) state USA Softball guy used to preach to us up one side and down the other NOT to shake hands, bump fists, etc. with players.  His logic was allegedly some umpire who got sued because a player tripped and her touched her chest.  I don't buy that.

Like @SH0102, I am professional about it.  I don't refuse, but I try to get away without it as fast as possible.  Unfortunately, I have had too many partners that think it is a family reunion out there.

[Catch18]

Every time I have to toss anyone, it feels like I've got zero support and may as well be alone out there.
Hope the rest of your summer goes better!

Wolfe, I’ll come work with ya, I got your back.

Except this summer….I’m done . Taking the summer off for the first time since 200-some single digit number.

Finished my regional and packed up the gear. Gonna be a great summer with the kids, Cub Scout camps & vacation

[Catch18]

Why are you waiting for handshakes with coaches ?  Get off the field, especially after a contentious game.  If a coach comes to shake my hand as I’m headed for the exit, I’ll quickly and professionally oblige, but I do not go looking for one.
 

On point. I can’t second this motion quickly enough.

[wolfe_man]

9 hours ago, Catch18 said:

 

Wolfe, I’ll come work with ya, I got your back.

Except this summer….I’m done . Taking the summer off for the first time since 200-some single digit number.

Finished my regional and packed up the gear. Gonna be a great summer with the kids, Cub Scout camps & vacation

I've got six games scheduled still and then I'm doing it also.  Enjoy your summer!

[SeeingEyeDog]

@ErichKeane, sorry about the horse...

I don't have your local league's modifications in front of me but, there is nothing in the rulebooks requiring umpires to "stick around for the handshake line" or really stick around for ANYTHING after a baseball game is concluded. My association messages us regularly on this. In fact, within the last few years some of the Village Elders have pre-gamed, "...and we will depart the field on the winning team's side of the ballpark." My association also put out messaging a few years back that we should never be ON a baseball field prior to 10 minutes prior to scheduled game time. If we are not on the field, we can deflect association, assigner and or league phone calls about something that may have happened on the field before that time with, "...we weren't on the field."

I don't know what the internal politics of your association and or the leagues that you work and where this direction of "staying on the field" is coming from but, I would encourage you to work professionally with your local brothers to tear it down and then kill it with fire. Ask questions...be a 5 year old...Why? Why do we do this? Why as umpires do we accept the responsibilities of remaining on the field after the game is concluded? Why is our association leadership (who is supposed to be supporting us...) putting this responsibility on us? I just can't emphasize enough how irregular this is and I suspect this is nothing more than a tradition or custom. What would happen if you guys started walking off fields at the conclusion of games? What...they'll just find other umpires waiting in the wings by the hundreds? Whatever the consequences might be...they can't be worse than the garbage awaiting you by staying on the field. I'm not telling you what to do. I'm just asking questions and trying to empower you to consider other perspectives...

When I was a boy, I learned to cook with my Mom in the kitchen. Whenever she made a roast, she cut 3 inches off of it and then put it in the oven. One day, I asked her, "Mom, why do you always cut 3 inches off the roast?" She said, "I don't know...that's just how I've always done it. That's how your Grandmother did it." The next time I saw my Grandmother, I asked her, "Grandma, how come you always cut 3 inches off the roast?" And she said, "I don't know...that's just how I've always done it. That's how my mother, your Great Grandma, did it." So I said, "Can we call Great Grandma and ask her about it?" She chuckled and said, "Sure..." So, we got Great Grandma on the phone and I asked her. She thought about it for the moment and also started chuckling, "Oh...well...you see I had to cut the roast down in order to fit it in our pan!"

Traditions, heritage, legacy, customs...why do we do the things we do the way we do them? We don't know until we ask...

~Dawg

[ErichKeane]

1 minute ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

@ErichKeane, sorry about the horse...

I don't have your local league's modifications in front of me but, there is nothing in the rulebooks requiring umpires to "stick around for the handshake line" or really stick around for ANYTHING after a baseball game is concluded. My association messages us regularly on this. In fact, within the last few years some of the Village Elders have pre-gamed, "...and we will depart the field on the winning team's side of the ballpark." My association also put out messaging a few years back that we should never be ON a baseball field prior to 10 minutes prior to scheduled game time. If we are not on the field, we can deflect association, assigner and or league phone calls about something that may have happened on the field before that time with, "...we weren't on the field."

I don't know what the internal politics of your association and or the leagues that you work and where this direction of "staying on the field" is coming from but, I would encourage you to work professionally with your local brothers to tear it down and then kill it with fire. Ask questions...be a 5 year old...Why? Why do we do this? Why as umpires do we accept the responsibilities of remaining on the field after the game is concluded? Why is our association leadership (who is supposed to be supporting us...) putting this responsibility on us? I just can't emphasize enough how irregular this is and I suspect this is nothing more than a tradition or custom. What would happen if you guys started walking off fields at the conclusion of games? What...they'll just find other umpires waiting in the wings by the hundreds? Whatever the consequences might be...they can't be worse than the garbage awaiting you by staying on the field. I'm not telling you what to do. I'm just asking questions and trying to empower you to consider other perspectives...

When I was a boy, I learned to cook with my Mom in the kitchen. Whenever she made a roast, she cut 3 inches off of it and then put it in the oven. One day, I asked her, "Mom, why do you always cut 3 inches off the roast?" She said, "I don't know...that's just how I've always done it. That's how your Grandmother did it." The next time I saw my Grandmother, I asked her, "Grandma, how come you always cut 3 inches off the roast?" And she said, "I don't know...that's just how I've always done it. That's how my mother, your Great Grandma, did it." So I said, "Can we call Great Grandma and ask her about it?" She chuckled and said, "Sure..." So, we got Great Grandma on the phone and I asked her. She thought about it for the moment and also started chuckling, "Oh...well...you see I had to cut the roast down in order to fit it in our pan!"

Traditions, heritage, legacy, customs...why do we do the things we do the way we do them? We don't know until we ask...

~Dawg

FWIW, it doesn't seem to bother any of the other umps.  A lot of my partners seem to enjoy hanging out, so I have to stick with them anyway (partners should walk off together!).

Another thing I was thinking about: Our tournament org has 'score cards' we have to keep and get initialed by coaches after the game.  So at least 1 ump has to get both coaches to initial them.  Coaches always 'forget' and so you are chasing them to do it, which keeps you there after the handshake.  And I would  NOT want to leave a partner alone to do that if it was a contentious one

[SeeingEyeDog]

2 minutes ago, ErichKeane said:

FWIW, it doesn't seem to bother any of the other umps.  A lot of my partners seem to enjoy hanging out, so I have to stick with them anyway (partners should walk off together!).

Another thing I was thinking about: Our tournament org has 'score cards' we have to keep and get initialed by coaches after the game.  So at least 1 ump has to get both coaches to initial them.  Coaches always 'forget' and so you are chasing them to do it, which keeps you there after the handshake.  And I would  NOT want to leave a partner alone to do that if it was a contentious one

If guys "enjoy hanging out"? Then this is merely a question of education. Most people in full possession of their faculties if told they can significantly reduce their liabilities simply by taking 30 seconds to walk across a baseball field and go through a gate...would do so.

As far as the "score cards" go? TD should be getting those signed. But, if they insist on the umpires doing it...you could wait for them again outside the gate(s).

~Dawg

[H2PBlue]

On 6/7/2023 at 1:52 PM, ErichKeane said:

.), and 1 I'm sure I flubbed (R1,R2,R3, I called IFF, F5 missed the ball, then chased R2 to 3B, where I got the call right.  Behind me, R1 (now on 2nd) hears the dugout yelling "he didn't tag up!", so starts running back.  I book it across the field to follow the throw, but am still only just past the mound when the head first slide back to 1B mixed with a tag and a cloud of dust all happen, so I don't see enough to call out, so I call safe.  VT bench (including both remaining coaches) start yelling about how he tagged his hand, but I ignored and we continued the game.

". 

 

So the kid just got confused and assumed he had to tag up so he went all the way back to first? If F5 dropped it he would've had no need to tag, correct?

[ErichKeane]

1 hour ago, H2PBlue said:

So the kid just got confused and assumed he had to tag up so he went all the way back to first? If F5 dropped it he would've had no need to tag, correct?

Yes that is correct. No idea why the defensive coaches pointed out THAT runner rather than R3 who scored, or R2 who was on 3B (or perhaps he was the only one who was confused?), but if the ball isn't caught, IFF or not, tagging up is unnecessary.