calablue Posted April 25, 2023 Report Share Posted April 25, 2023 OBR. But I imagine that this will be the same in all codes. : Is it a legal tag if A defender holds the ball in one hand, puts the ball against the glove, and then touches the runner with the glove while the ball is against it? It seems like this might be what the last sentence of the definition of Tag is saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maven Posted April 25, 2023 Report Share Posted April 25, 2023 I'm not sure which "last sentence of the definition" you mean, but technically this would not be a tag. A tag of a runner requires secure possession of the ball in the glove or the hand, and the hand/glove with the ball touching the person of the runner. It would, however, be a tag in any game that I will ever umpire, and nobody will ever say a word about it. Failing to rule this a tag is a great way to ruin a game. What you describe is different from having the ball in hand and touching the runner with the empty glove. That is not a tag. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calablue Posted April 25, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2023 Got it. Thank you. An out in my games also. I understand the difference between my scenario and tagging with the glove alone. I was just looking for something to back it up. AND trying to understand the last portion of the OBR 2.0 definition of TAG. The portion that follows the semicolon (;). Seems very confusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maven Posted April 25, 2023 Report Share Posted April 25, 2023 4 minutes ago, calablue said: I was just looking for something to back it up. "Coach, I saw the little finger of the hand with the ball brush the runner's uniform." 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calablue Posted April 25, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2023 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSam21 Posted April 25, 2023 Report Share Posted April 25, 2023 This is a tag as stated in the MLBUM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor Azul Posted April 25, 2023 Report Share Posted April 25, 2023 Mr. cala blue, there are two OBR citations that tell us the tag you ask about is legal. They can be found in an old post of mine-- Ask the Umpire forum dated 3/29/22 titled Is this enough for the tag to be doubled off of first? I can't cut and paste so if someone would be kind enough to bring it forward I would be grateful. One of the sources is the MiLBUM and a relevant part says--touching a runner with the ball in his bare hand pressed against his glove is legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister B Posted April 25, 2023 Report Share Posted April 25, 2023 I had a game where the runner was tagged with an empty glove. Nobody seemed to notice, and I didn't say anything. When the runner went into the dugout, I called him out. One of the players said, "A little late on that, aren't you?" I just smile said, "nope" and walked away. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velho Posted April 25, 2023 Report Share Posted April 25, 2023 2 hours ago, Senor Azul said: Mr. cala blue, there are two OBR citations that tell us the tag you ask about is legal. They can be found in an old post of mine-- Ask the Umpire forum dated 3/29/22 titled Is this enough for the tag to be doubled off of first? I can't cut and paste so if someone would be kind enough to bring it forward I would be grateful. One of the sources is the MiLBUM and a relevant part says--touching a runner with the ball in his bare hand pressed against his glove is legal. [Quoting someone else] "Back in my day as a catcher, we were taught to tag runner sliding home with empty glove with ball in hand just outside glove so as not to have it get knocked out (fast motion, difficult to see). In this day of replay, that would be a big ol’ safe at home" SenorAzul response: If you were not holding the ball against the glove when your tag was applied then it would not have been a legal putout. But if you were pressing the ball to the mitt (even on the backside of the mitt) then you would have had a legal tag. At least that is my understanding of what the Jaksa/Roder manual and the MiLBUM wrote about what constitutes a legal tag… From the Jaksa/Roder manual (2017 edition, p. 29) with their definition of tag. A tag occurs when the ball is live and a fielder has the ball in his hand or glove (or both) and…a runner is touched by any part of the glove/ball, hand/ball, or glove/hand/ball combination (excepting that if dangling laces alone touch the base or runner, it is not a tag). From the 2021 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (section 10.8, p. 159): The Official Baseball Rule further defines a “tag” as touching a runner with the ball, or with his hand or glove holding the ball (not including hanging laces alone), while holding the ball securely and firmly in his hand or glove (or in his bare hand pressed against his glove)… It does not go on to differentiate between the ball being pressed against the glove on the inside of the glove or on the outside of the glove." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor Azul Posted April 25, 2023 Report Share Posted April 25, 2023 Well, we now have three OBR citations to provide definitive proof that the tag in the OP is legal. (Thanks to JSam21 and a tip of the cap to you for posting the MLBUM reference.) There is no need to "go rogue" and make a call that is technically wrong. As for high school and college rulings, I can't find anything that states it definitively so I would follow the OBR interpretation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maven Posted April 26, 2023 Report Share Posted April 26, 2023 Always glad to learn the MLBUM agrees with me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HokieUmp Posted April 26, 2023 Report Share Posted April 26, 2023 5 hours ago, maven said: Always glad to learn the MLBUM agrees with me. #WWMD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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