If I throw at you....I'll drink Mountain Dew

[Mad Mike]

Interesting college ejection: 

Saturday's NCAA baseball game between Austin Peay and Liberty had some unique ejections.

Austin Peay manager Roland Fanning, along with his pitcher and catcher, was ejected in the third inning after it was determined that the Governors had intentionally thrown at Liberty's Nathan Keeter. 

Keeter had previously homered in the first inning and celebrated toward the Austin Peay dugout. After Fanning was ejected from the game, he calmly took a few swigs of his two-liter bottle of Mountain Dew while conversing with the home plate umpire. Looks like multiple folks got tossed (pitcher and catcher).

Look: Video Of College Baseball Coach's Ejection Goes Viral (msn.com)

[The Man in Blue]

Another great mis-observation by the commentators.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the requirement is for the crew to get together before ejecting in this scenario.  It should not come immediately after the pitch.

A couple of things bugged me though ... PU putting his mask back on to talk (I know why, but just NO) and U3's posture and mannerisms during the exchange.  Thoughts?  

[Jimurray]

2 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

Another great mis-observation by the commentators.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the requirement is for the crew to get together before ejecting in this scenario.  It should not come immediately after the pitch.

A couple of things bugged me though ... PU putting his mask back on to talk (I know why, but just NO) and U3's posture and mannerisms during the exchange.  Thoughts?  

Should have took care of business with the (bat flip?) and stare. Crew hasn't been watching 3 or 4 consecutive NCAA video bulletins about game managment, unless we are missing a warning about whatever the batter did after the HR or it was not as bad as the other team took it.

[SeeingEyeDog]

That coach banging down that 2L of Mountain Dew, though...

~Dawg

[NateWalter]

On 3/26/2023 at 8:31 PM, Jimurray said:

Should have took care of business with the (bat flip?) and stare.

Oh goodness. Some days, I question why umpires get such a bad rep, and then I read stuff like this.

If you want every player, coach, fan, commenter, and even possibly league official to be against you, eject a player for flipping his bat after a home run. It didn't hit any one, let it go. That the other team might gets their jock straps all twisted about it isn't something you need to deal with.

Eject brazen displays of unsportsmanlike behavior, not moments where the athlete is having fun.

[SH0102]

1 hour ago, NateWalter said:

Oh goodness. Some days, I question why umpires get such a bad rep, and then I read stuff like this.

If you want every player, coach, fan, commenter, and even possibly league official to be against you, eject a player for flipping his bat after a home run. It didn't hit any one, let it go. That the other team might gets their jock straps all twisted about it isn't something you need to deal with.

Eject brazen displays of unsportsmanlike behavior, not moments where the athlete is having fun.

Nate,

all due respect, if you don’t Umpire college baseball, you should not denegrade college umpires for directives you are not aware of.

We have been hammered with national directives to handle this with warnings and ejections. A bat flip is at minimum an automatic team warning and can be an ejection if it is egregious and/or is accompanied with additional acts (taunting for ex).

Umpires work for their assignors and associations.  When you are told to not allow it, you don’t allow it.  

A bat flip and stare down, left unchecked, will lead to batters being thrown at, which can lead to fights.  Since ncaa wants to avoid this, rightfully so, they are penalizing the initial acts rather than letting it get to the point where it spirals out of control.

And to your point, it is in fact entirely possible to have fun and celebrate without involving the other team at all

[NateWalter]

8 minutes ago, SH0102 said:

And to your point, it is in fact entirely possible to have fun and celebrate without involving the other team at all

How is flipping a bat in celebration "involving the other team"? Do we also punish high fives? Fist pumps? Verbal celebrations?

Not to mention, in the video in question, there wasn't even a bat flip. The batter literally set the bat down. As he crossed home plate, he glanced in the direction of the other dugout. Even without any context, I don't see how this would rise to the level of warning, or worse, ejection.

I would seriously doubt your national directive is that the athletes cannot celebrate, but rather, to address demonstrative, over-the-top celebrations. Nothing within this situation rose to that level, even the very, very brief "stare" over to the dugout.

[BLWizzRanger]

By the directives of the NCAA, these were legit ejections.  Stop it in the bud.  Don't let it escalate.  I have the batter taunting their bench with just a 'glance' (more of a stare).  Maybe someone in their bench said something, we don't know, but he did stare into their bench.  If that was the only thing he did, the 'glance', we see how that small gesture escalates to him being pitched at.

[NateWalter]

22 minutes ago, BLWizzRanger said:

I have the batter taunting their bench with just a 'glance' (more of a stare).  Maybe someone in their bench said something, we don't know, but he did stare into their bench.

If there was something said to him from the opposing bench, why is he wrong to "glance" or "stare" in that direction? It's natural that when something is said to us, we look at the person.

Connecting some dots, it's likely that something was said to him. After all, Austin Peay felt it prudent that, whatever he did, it merited being thrown at. I doubt it took them two innings to get upset about a HR in the first inning.

The point is, the directive is most likely there to eliminate over-the-top issues, not simple glances or stares toward a bench (in which it remains likely he was being spoken to or yelled at). If you wish to address both teams, that might be the only way to make this appropriate, but addressing the batter here would go well above and beyond the intent of the NCAA's directive.

If the opposing team is incapable of allowing their opponent to celebrate, don't punish the opponent. Punish them.

[JSam21]

2 hours ago, NateWalter said:

If there was something said to him from the opposing bench, why is he wrong to "glance" or "stare" in that direction? It's natural that when something is said to us, we look at the person.

Connecting some dots, it's likely that something was said to him. After all, Austin Peay felt it prudent that, whatever he did, it merited being thrown at. I doubt it took them two innings to get upset about a HR in the first inning.

The point is, the directive is most likely there to eliminate over-the-top issues, not simple glances or stares toward a bench (in which it remains likely he was being spoken to or yelled at). If you wish to address both teams, that might be the only way to make this appropriate, but addressing the batter here would go well above and beyond the intent of the NCAA's directive.

If the opposing team is incapable of allowing their opponent to celebrate, don't punish the opponent. Punish them.

Because the NCAA has explicitly stated in their rules that bat flips towards an opponent is at a minimum grounds for a warning. 

[NateWalter]

2 hours ago, JSam21 said:

Because the NCAA has explicitly stated in their rules that bat flips towards an opponent is at a minimum grounds for a warning. 

"Towards an opponent" is kind of a key thing here, don't you think?

Also, show me in the video where the Liberty player "flipped his bat"... at all. He set it down.

[Jimurray]

2 hours ago, NateWalter said:

"Towards an opponent" is kind of a key thing here, don't you think?

Also, show me in the video where the Liberty player "flipped his bat"... at all. He set it down.

I didn't see a bat flip but there was some mention of it somewhere, hence my parenthesis and ?. But it appears that NCAA has noticed some players fun in the near past was actually well disguised taunting to the opponents which led to HBP and/or brawls. Without a sportmanship warning to the Liberty batter we get him thrown at. Change any little thing and you could end up with a real purpose pitch, an injured batter and a fight on the field. But this is a new world where some coaches let this stuff happen. Umpires now have new responsibilities according to NCAA. While you have to judge fair/foul, base touches and boundary clearance NCAA hopes that one of the 4 umps also is watching the demeanor of the player. That is our job if it happens where we see it but now NCAA umps have to birddog it since NCAA won't discipline high level head coaches who allow this to happen without any discipline to the player. 

[NateWalter]

12 hours ago, Jimurray said:

Without a sportmanship warning to the Liberty batter we get him thrown at.

I'm still seeing anything that would necessitate a "warning" for the Liberty player? He looked into the bench of his opponent (most likely as a response to them chirping at him)? He didn't say anything. He didn't flip his bat. He literally celebrated his home run, and the other team didn't have the maturity to handle it.

I'm all for warning for sportsmanship issues. I'm confident that this was not one of those issues. Warning for this is a sure way to create trouble when you don't need to.

[BLWizzRanger]

gotta disagree.  In a high school game, I had a runner slide into home, stand up, and stare at the catcher, face to face no more than 2 feet apart, for a half second.  The catcher said it took all he had not to say something or slug him. It was intentional just like the Liberty player. 

I mean, the proof is in the pudding here.  The only thing the Liberty player did was stare into the dugout and he got thrown at.  The NCAA has cracked down and keeps reminding the umps to not allow this.  So we have proof that something can go bad on just a 'glance' and the governing body says to crack down on it but there are still arguments that this is nothing.  

[SH0102]

Nate,

im always trying to get better and always trying to help others get better.  You posted in this forum you were preparing for your upcoming 13/14u season.  I’m glad you’re an umpire and hope you continue to grow.

But when you move from youth to HS, and possibly from HS to college, you will need to change your approach.

While it is true that bat flips and stares and subsequent penalties (nothing, warning, ejection) are an umpires judgment, thus you control the outcome, you need to learn that you do what your governing body says.

If you live in, let’s say Nebraska, and do HS, and the Nebraska hs athletic association says “umpires must enforce ____”, then you better be enforcing it, regardless of whether you feel it’s appropriate.

We work for our assignors and associations. If you Umpire college and let that go, you won’t be umpiring college for very long bc there have been about 20 videos sent to ncaa umpires on this matter, none of which say “look the other way”.

Keep umpiring, keep growing, but I’d stop bashing umpires and their decisions on public forums if your goal is to move up.  Ask questions, “why did they warn on this? What criteria did they use to justify an ejection?” But don’t interject your personal beliefs on rules and directives that come “from the top”

[Jimurray]

3 minutes ago, SH0102 said:

Nate,

 

 

 

We work for our assignors and associations. If you Umpire college and let that go, you won’t be umpiring college for very long bc there have been about 20 videos sent to ncaa umpires on this matter, none of which say “look the other way”.

 

Just to be clear we don't know if that was let go or not seen by the crew. But NCAA want's any ump on the field that does not have a real mechanics responsibilty during the play to be watching for such occurrences. 

[SH0102]

20 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

Just to be clear we don't know if that was let go or not seen by the crew. But NCAA want's any ump on the field that does not have a real mechanics responsibilty during the play to be watching for such occurrences. 

Very true, and it is much harder in 2 man (sub d1).  I missed a bat flip last year bc partner was in B or C (can’t remember but they were in middle) and the HR was right down the RF line and I had to get up the line and keep eyes on the pole-bender.

so definitely a fair point ! But I wasn’t saying this crew missed anything, I was responding to Nate saying he’d ignore this and they’re just having fun

[BigBlue4u]

On 3/26/2023 at 3:10 PM, Mad Mike said:

Interesting college ejection: 

Saturday's NCAA baseball game between Austin Peay and Liberty had some unique ejections.

Austin Peay manager Roland Fanning, along with his pitcher and catcher, was ejected in the third inning after it was determined that the Governors had intentionally thrown at Liberty's Nathan Keeter. 

Keeter had previously homered in the first inning and celebrated toward the Austin Peay dugout. After Fanning was ejected from the game, he calmly took a few swigs of his two-liter bottle of Mountain Dew while conversing with the home plate umpire. Looks like multiple folks got tossed (pitcher and catcher).

Look: Video Of College Baseball Coach's Ejection Goes Viral (msn.com)

Just a side note.  Why would a plate umpire put on his mask before talking with his partners? I mean nobody can read lips that well.

[BigBlue4u]

On 4/4/2023 at 5:50 AM, NateWalter said:

I'm all for warning for sportsmanship issues. I'm confident that this was not one of those issues. Warning for this is a sure way to create trouble when you don't need to.

Not quite.  A warming for this is a sure way to keep the game under control by letting both teams know that you are aware of potentially volatile situations.

[The Man in Blue]

2 hours ago, BigBlue4u said:

Just a side note.  Why would a plate umpire put on his mask before talking with his partners? I mean nobody can read lips that well.

Thank you!  (Said that in the second post.)  

2 hours ago, BigBlue4u said:

Not quite.  A warming for this is a sure way to keep the game under control by letting both teams know that you are aware of potentially volatile situations.

Nobody wants warm Mountain Dew.  It is more volatile and will shoot all over when the bottle is opened.

[NateWalter]

On 4/4/2023 at 9:53 AM, SH0102 said:

You posted in this forum you were preparing for your upcoming 13/14u season.  I’m glad you’re an umpire and hope you continue to grow.

But when you move from youth to HS, and possibly from HS to college, you will need to change your approach.

Just to be clear, I've done my fair share of high school officiating, as I did so in Iowa for 3 years. Iowa does HS baseball in the summer. This allowed me to pick up a JV doubleheader at 10AM on random weekdays or call a varsity game in the evening.

When I moved to Missouri, the spring schedule didn't work so easily with my family and work schedule, so I decided to simply help the local league here when I can. If I had time to do HS ball again, I most certainly would. (I'm moving to Indiana and would happily do HS ball if someone has some connections)

[NateWalter]

On 4/4/2023 at 9:53 AM, SH0102 said:

If you live in, let’s say Nebraska, and do HS, and the Nebraska hs athletic association says “umpires must enforce ____”, then you better be enforcing it, regardless of whether you feel it’s appropriate.

We work for our assignors and associations. If you Umpire college and let that go, you won’t be umpiring college for very long bc there have been about 20 videos sent to ncaa umpires on this matter, none of which say “look the other way”.

Enforcing it is still a judgment call, is it not? You still have to make a judgment of whether or not it is deemed unsportsmanlike.

As an umpire, situational awareness is crucial. And in this case, warning a player who "glances" at the opposing dugout, as a response to being yelled at, proves that the umpire doesn't have the situational awareness to properly assess what occurred. When players are being yelled at, they will naturally look at the person/people yelling at them. If the directive you've been given requires you to ignore situational awareness or consider the facts involved, then frankly, stop working for that league.

[BLWizzRanger]

If, in your situational awareness, you are letting that 'glance' go without a warning, at a minimum, please remember to stand back and start noting the numbers of the players that start shoving and fighting after the next glance/gesturing/bat flip/bench jockying/bean ball etc.

[NateWalter]

1 hour ago, BLWizzRanger said:

If, in your situational awareness, you are letting that 'glance' go without a warning, at a minimum, please remember to stand back and start noting the numbers of the players that start shoving and fighting after the next glance/gesturing/bat flip/bench jockying/bean ball etc.

While we're at it, let's just eject any player that walks on the field. Just to ensure that no one does anything to want to fight the other player. After all, we can't have people looking or talking to one another!!!