All Star FM25EXTBK

[cwbaseball11]

Hello! New umpire here. What is your opinion on the All Star FM25EXTBK for varsity baseball?

Any other suggestions would be helpful. I'm don't want to break the bank right now until I see if umpiring is what I want to do long term.

Thanks!

[Thunderheads]

13 minutes ago, cwbaseball11 said:

Hello! New umpire here. What is your opinion on the All Star FM25EXTBK for varsity baseball?

Any other suggestions would be helpful. I'm don't want to break the bank right now until I see if umpiring is what I want to do long term.

Thanks!

do you have a photo of what you're referring to?  I just want to make sure what you're looking at

[wolfe_man]

Yes, this mask would be fine for varsity baseball.  This used to be a very common mask for MLB catchers and umpires, some may even still be in use.

 

[Thunderheads]

3 minutes ago, wolfe_man said:

Yes, this mask would be fine for varsity baseball.  This used to be a very common mask for MLB catchers and umpires, some may even still be in use.

 

Thanks Keith, I just wasn't sure of all the alphabet soups behind the "FM25" ... but if this is indeed the one,...then I concur w/ @wolfe_man .... with one caveat:  I would change the pads to the All-Star LUC pads or the MAG pads, or maybe Team Wendy ...but that's a workhorse rig for sure!

[cwbaseball11]

Thank you! Can anyone comment on how heavy it is?

[Thunderheads]

10 minutes ago, cwbaseball11 said:

Thank you! Can anyone comment on how heavy it is?

It's actually on the lighter side for a hollow steel frame.   You'll be just fine, ...it's a great rig, you'll love it!

ON EDIT:  @wolfe_man .... EXT is a 'solid steel' ... the regular FM25 is Hollow Steel ... so, I'm not sure on the weight difference between the two.

[wolfe_man]

44 minutes ago, Thunderheads said:

It's actually on the lighter side for a hollow steel frame.   You'll be just fine, ...it's a great rig, you'll love it!

ON EDIT:  @wolfe_man .... EXT is a 'solid steel' ... the regular FM25 is Hollow Steel ... so, I'm not sure on the weight difference between the two.

Yes, agree that EXT is solid steel.  It's going to be a bit heavier than the hollow one, but it should be very strong as a result.

Personally, I'd recommend going up to the hollow steel one if you can swing it.  Or even a Diamond aluminum mask.  It's way lighter and you'll end up liking it better.

Or if you like the Fm25 platform, then go with the LUC or LMX (leather) pads versions of this mask.

SKU: FM25UMP-LMX-BLACK

SKU: FM25UMP-LUC-BLACK

 

This is from All-Star's website (they're sold out, but others have them in-stock):

[MadMax]

26 minutes ago, wolfe_man said:

This is from All-Star's website (they're sold out, but others have them in-stock):

All-Star itself is going to be sold out of nearly everything “in their closet”, because they’re in the process of drop-shipping everything to all 30 MLB clubs, and then a slew of NCAA D1 programs. 

You should see the boxes. 📦 🤩

[wolfe_man]

2 minutes ago, MadMax said:

All-Star itself is going to be sold out of nearly everything “in their closet”, because they’re in the process of drop-shipping everything to all 30 MLB clubs, and then a slew of NCAA D1 programs. 

You should see the boxes. 📦 🤩

LOL I have no doubt!  I noticed they're sold out of about everything a new umpire would need.  But also true, perhaps more so, for catchers as well.

[MadMax]

6 hours ago, cwbaseball11 said:

Can anyone comment on how heavy it is?

CW, I’m going to nudge you on a different consideration… 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/354247286845?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=no-wdgjjsl2&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=VziYH8tnRdi&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

This is for a black Diamond DFM-Pro. This is not their standard DFM-43, but based off of it. Instead of steel… it’s aluminum! 😁

Why’s that important? Being aluminum, it is much, much less likely to bend, and it weighs considerably less than steel. The predominant reason aluminum didn’t really go over / sell well – for catchers – is because the welds don’t hold up well over the frequent impacts. I’m not saying just the obvious direct-ball-to-mask shots. I’m talking all of ‘em, from blocks on pitches in the dirt, to dropping the mask on the ground on every play, to hurling the mask against the bench in frustration or stuffing it into a gear bag, smashed against a batting helmet and some shoes and ground against the pavement. 

An umpire’s mask shouldn’t hit the ground, and if an umpire’s at the point of hurling the mask against a bench, it’s time to reevaluate some life choices and attitudes! 

This one’ll be really good one for ya. 

[Thunderheads]

5 minutes ago, MadMax said:

CW, I’m going to nudge you on a different consideration… 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/354247286845?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=no-wdgjjsl2&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=VziYH8tnRdi&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

This is for a black Diamond DFM-Pro. This is not their standard DFM-43, but based off of it. Instead of steel… it’s aluminum! 😁

Why’s that important? Being aluminum, it is much, much less likely to bend, and it weighs considerably less than steel. The predominant reason aluminum didn’t really go over / sell well – for catchers – is because the welds don’t hold up well over the frequent impacts. I’m not saying just the obvious direct-ball-to-mask shots. I’m talking all of ‘em, from blocks on pitches in the dirt, to dropping the mask on the ground on every play, to hurling the mask against the bench in frustration or stuffing it into a gear bag, smashed against a batting helmet and some shoes and ground against the pavement. 

An umpire’s mask shouldn’t hit the ground, and if an umpire’s at the point of hurling the mask against a bench, it’s time to reevaluate some life choices and attitudes! 

This one’ll be really good one for ya. 

Use your best Johnny Carson impersonation here: ........"I did NOT know that"  

[wolfe_man]

9 minutes ago, MadMax said:

CW, I’m going to nudge you on a different consideration… 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/354247286845?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=no-wdgjjsl2&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=VziYH8tnRdi&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

This is for a black Diamond DFM-Pro. This is not their standard DFM-43, but based off of it. Instead of steel… it’s aluminum! 😁

Why’s that important? Being aluminum, it is much, much less likely to bend, and it weighs considerably less than steel. The predominant reason aluminum didn’t really go over / sell well – for catchers – is because the welds don’t hold up well over the frequent impacts. I’m not saying just the obvious direct-ball-to-mask shots. I’m talking all of ‘em, from blocks on pitches in the dirt, to dropping the mask on the ground on every play, to hurling the mask against the bench in frustration or stuffing it into a gear bag, smashed against a batting helmet and some shoes and ground against the pavement. 

An umpire’s mask shouldn’t hit the ground, and if an umpire’s at the point of hurling the mask against a bench, it’s time to reevaluate some life choices and attitudes! 

This one’ll be really good one for ya. 

I’ll go along with this - IF - you promise to get new pads for it too.

The mask is good, the pads are not.

 

[cwbaseball11]

Thanks for the suggestions. Is this the same style @MadMax?

Also, what about these Champro and Champion masks that are so cheap? Should I be wary of them?

[wolfe_man]

11 hours ago, cwbaseball11 said:

Thanks for the suggestions. Is this the same style @MadMax?

Also, what about these Champro and Champion masks that are so cheap? Should I be wary of them?

That's a different mask platform made by Diamond.  The one you have here is specifically made "for umpires" versus the other was the Diamond PRO intended more for catchers.  In all honesty, only the marketing of a mask determines it's appropriate usage.  The Nike titanium that's so popular with umpires is only given to sponsored catchers, so I guess it's not specific to catchers only.

If it has the flat bars on a Diamond frame, then it is aluminum which means a much lighter weight versus the original steel.   Hollow steel frames can be light as well, but they'll bend easier.  Magnesium and titanium are very lightweight and less prone to bend, but their cost is much greater than aluminum, so Diamond used aluminum and it has been very popular.   Most of the amateur (read non-professional) umpires that I know of either use or have used this mask at some point in their careers.  It's VERY popular at the college level still.  There are several color options (pewter, silver, black, flat black) available too.  You can normally find these on eBay or Facebook marketplace for under $50 used, so with new pads and harness you're around $100.   Wilson has an aluminum mask that's popular as well, but you'll pay more for it due to the MLB logo on the pads.

The one truly bad thing with most Diamond frames is the pads are too soft. They feel amazing on your face, but they'll compress too much when impacted.  If they compress too much, then you're at greater risk of getting a concussion on a mask impact.  Note: if you get the upgraded leather pads from Diamond on  your frame, they're pretty good I've heard... but the IX3 and others are pretty soft. A good test is to squeeze them with both hands. If you can feel the frame through the pads when you squeeze, then it's possible the frame could make contact with your face or head which is not good.  You do not want the pads to compress completely when impacted (squeezed). You want them to be firm enough so that it absorbs the impact without passing it on to your head/neck, but soft or comfortable enough to wear for several hours.  Most of us on here like the All Star MAG LUCs, regular LUCs, Team Wendy's, Wilson or Honig's leather pads. And just about any pad fits great in the Diamond frame!

Some of the Champion and Champro masks are just fine.  You'll want to replace the pads again (as with all lower-end cost masks) but some of the frames are actually pretty good.  The bonus on some of these is if it bends, it's cheap to replace.  You'll find many umpires started with these and as a result don't want to wear one now.   I'm afraid there is a stigma with some low-end companies that make some umpires not want to wear them for fear of looking like a rookie.

If you really want to get an idea of what guys are wearing, go look at the Mask Porn section of this website. You'll see the frame, color and pad choice of a wide range of umpires.  One thing I love about this site is the wide range of experience found in its users.  You can learn a lot if you're willing to sit and listen to the right folks.

[cwbaseball11]

Thank you @wolfe_man! Very helpful. Trying to learn all I can.

[MadMax]

Wow, @wolfe_man, a 5 big paragraph post? You’re gettin’ like me! 

@cwbaseball11, everything my esteemed colleague stated is dead-on correct. There’s no reason for me to repeat it. I will therefore enhance it – 

Regarding why I nudged you towards that DFM-Pro catcher’s mask instead of the Umpire’s mask has to do with cost & availability. They both are of Diamond’s iX3 line, which really turned the industry on its ear in 2012-13. Up until then, the only options in masks were from the high-end companies (Nike, Wilson, All-Star, Rawlings) in Titanium or Steel – either hollow or solid. The all-aluminum Diamond iX3 line put a (nearly) bend-proof, break-proof, lightweight mask at a really affordable price point. 

The umpire version has the chisel (square) XCG (Extended Chin Guard) for easier mounting of a DTG, single-bar eyeport, and that extended crown guard up top. These are all beneficial to umpires. It was snatched up in droves, especially popular with Minor League umpires who operated on shoestring budgets because it wouldn’t bend (✔️“Equipment looks presentable”), wouldn’t break (✔️“Equipment in proper working order”), was stupid lightweight compared to the Wilson DynaLite (✔️“Less strain during a 9-inning game”), and still cost less than a Wilson DynaLite. 

The catcher version had the rounded XCG (because most catchers drive their chin into their chest to block a ball, and don’t necessarily need a DTG), the larger ear guards, and the double-bar eyeport. The reason it didn’t take off to be a success is only due to the nature of professional and amateur baseball – no pro catcher is endorsed by Diamond, no collegiate program is endorsed by Diamond, and HS catchers are not allowed to wear two-piece traditional masks. And, as I mentioned, aluminum doesn’t hold up as well to the routine, repetitive abuse catchers dole out on their gear. 

The point of the story is that in about 2016-17, Wilson had (finally) taken notice that they were getting eclipsed by Diamond on masks being worn by MiLB and college umpires. And, having terminated the DynaLite “Platinum” Titanium mask line, due to a customer service nightmare with them (complete with telling some shills in MLBU to claim that Titanium was “dangerous”, so as to dissuade sales and use of Titanium), Wilson launched their own DynaLite Aluminum line (and even added a Titanium model, liars), starting at $110. Within weeks, in keeping with the adage “a rising tide lifts all boats”, Diamond increased their umpire iX3 masks by $20-25! 

But that didn’t apply to the catcher’s version. 🤫 

So! When you mention that you’re trying to get the best possible mask, at the least cost, I immediately start steering towards masks like these. The base-entry Champro and Champion masks are terrible, primarily because the frames are typically solid steel, and the pads are atrocious. Mid-level, they’re better, but being hollow-steel, single-bar layouts, are prone to bending. The real shame is that +POS ZRO-G’s aren’t available anymore, and Easton Speed Elites have escalated in cost, too. 

Since you pointed towards the All-Star FM25, you would be well-served by getting a typical “catcher’s” mask. The frame is strong, the pads are decent, it’s got rather lightweight hollow steel (by design), it’s usually readily available, and the costs are very affordable... except right now, because Spring Training is about to throw out the first pitch. The FM25 has class rivals in the Easton Speed Elite, Rawlings PHWX, and Diamond DFM-43... but as I mentioned... 

... the DFM-PRO aluminum is based upon the DFM-43. 🤓 If you can find a Diamond umpire’s frame, go for it! It’ll be perfect for ya. I was just favoring the catcher’s version, at a lower cost, and a better (plumper!) set of pads than it’s for-umpire sibling. 

[Rock Bottom]

Personally, I suggest (and use myself, for about 500+ plates in the last 4 years since I started umping) the All-Star FM4000 hollow steel as a great first mask (it could be a long-term mask too).  It's nice and light (17oz) which is only 0.2oz more than their Magnesium model. Some MLB catchers (Severn on Colorado for one) still use it over the mag model.  They now have a factory black model, so you don't even need to get it powdercoated if you want black.  (I would suggest upgrading to the mag pads if money isn't exceptionally tight, but the standard pads are still really good imo.)

https://www.ump-attire.com/Products/FM4000-MBK/All-Star-Matte-Black-System-7-Steel-Umpire-Mask-with-UltraCool

[JonnyCat]

1 hour ago, Rock Bottom said:

Personally, I suggest (and use myself, for about 500+ plates in the last 4 years since I started umping) the All-Star FM4000 hollow steel as a great first mask (it could be a long-term mask too).  It's nice and light (17oz) which is only 0.2oz more than their Magnesium model. Some MLB catchers (Severn on Colorado for one) still use it over the mag model.  They now have a factory black model, so you don't even need to get it powdercoated if you want black.  (I would suggest upgrading to the mag pads if money isn't exceptionally tight, but the standard pads are still really good imo.)

https://www.ump-attire.com/Products/FM4000-MBK/All-Star-Matte-Black-System-7-Steel-Umpire-Mask-with-UltraCool

Agree 100%. I have used one for many years and it is a great mask! Add Team Wendy pads and an UmpLife harness, and it's almost an unbeatable combination. 

[Rock Bottom]

15 minutes ago, JonnyCat said:

Agree 100%. I have used one for many years and it is a great mask! Add Team Wendy pads and an UmpLife harness, and it's almost an unbeatable combination. 

Personally I'd say add the mag pads and the All-Star skull cap - mine came with the All-Star DeltaFlex harness and it's great with the skull cap especially, but tomato/tomato lol.

[The Man in Blue]

On 2/14/2023 at 6:58 PM, cwbaseball11 said:

Thanks for the suggestions. Is this the same style @MadMax?

Also, what about these Champro and Champion masks that are so cheap? Should I be wary of them?

 

Been using this mask for 10+ years.  I did replace the pads with Team Wendy's which made a world of difference.

I know Scheels carries two different masks, the cheaper one is a bit heavier.  Either one will hold up just fine until you are ready to join the mask porn guys.  😉

[wolfe_man]

If you want a flat black Diamond with new black TW pads, DM me and we’ll get you a better deal than you’ll find anywhere else. I picked a nice frame up off eBay this week and have some new TW pads I can put on it.

These photos are of the actual mask. They’re not mine and the angles odd, but you get the idea.