Patting glove with the ball while pitching at top of the delivery.

[Guest gaffm11]

My son who is playing 12U USSSA rules has recently developed a timing mechanisim at the top of his delivery right after he starts to bring his leg down from the "power positon" as it was called when I was his age of patting his throwing hand slightly into the palm of his glove. To be clear the ball never leaves his throwing hand and is only seperated from the glove for a split second. He has had a coach from an opposing team and now an umpire from a tournament this weekend tell him this is not allowed. No one has been able to tell me where it is explained that this is not allowed. Ive looked at the rules of a balk and the rule I believe they are refering to is that the pitcher once he has reached the set position can not take his hand away from the ball. He is not removing his hand from the ball he is simply patting it into his glove. He does it with runners on and with no runners on this is in no way to decieve the runner and again this is after he has already lifted his leg and just after he starts to make his clear motion to the plate. Any help on this would be fantastic because the way I read the rules for a Balk and an illegal pitch I see no infraction here. Thanks in advance. 

[Tborze]

10 minutes ago, Guest gaffm11 said:

My son who is playing 12U USSSA rules has recently developed a timing mechanisim at the top of his delivery right after he starts to bring his leg down from the "power positon" as it was called when I was his age of patting his throwing hand slightly into the palm of his glove. To be clear the ball never leaves his throwing hand and is only seperated from the glove for a split second. He has had a coach from an opposing team and now an umpire from a tournament this weekend tell him this is not allowed. No one has been able to tell me where it is explained that this is not allowed. Ive looked at the rules of a balk and the rule I believe they are refering to is that the pitcher once he has reached the set position can not take his hand away from the ball. He is not removing his hand from the ball he is simply patting it into his glove. He does it with runners on and with no runners on this is in no way to decieve the runner and again this is after he has already lifted his leg and just after he starts to make his clear motion to the plate. Any help on this would be fantastic because the way I read the rules for a Balk and an illegal pitch I see no infraction here. Thanks in advance. 

 

[Rich Ives]

10 minutes ago, Guest gaffm11 said:

My son who is playing 12U USSSA rules has recently developed a timing mechanisim at the top of his delivery right after he starts to bring his leg down from the "power positon" as it was called when I was his age of patting his throwing hand slightly into the palm of his glove. To be clear the ball never leaves his throwing hand and is only seperated from the glove for a split second. He has had a coach from an opposing team and now an umpire from a tournament this weekend tell him this is not allowed. No one has been able to tell me where it is explained that this is not allowed. Ive looked at the rules of a balk and the rule I believe they are refering to is that the pitcher once he has reached the set position can not take his hand away from the ball. He is not removing his hand from the ball he is simply patting it into his glove. He does it with runners on and with no runners on this is in no way to decieve the runner and again this is after he has already lifted his leg and just after he starts to make his clear motion to the plate. Any help on this would be fantastic because the way I read the rules for a Balk and an illegal pitch I see no infraction here. Thanks in advance. 

My two cents:

It is a balk when:  "The pitcher, after coming to a legal pitching position,
removes one hand from the ball other than in an actual
pitch, or in throwing to a base;"

Removing it from the glove IS removing a hand.

BUT

Once the motion has started it is an actual pitch so the exception applies.

[Thunderheads]

31 minutes ago, Guest gaffm11 said:

My son who is playing 12U USSSA rules has recently developed a timing mechanisim at the top of his delivery right after he starts to bring his leg down from the "power positon" as it was called when I was his age of patting his throwing hand slightly into the palm of his glove. To be clear the ball never leaves his throwing hand and is only seperated from the glove for a split second. He has had a coach from an opposing team and now an umpire from a tournament this weekend tell him this is not allowed. No one has been able to tell me where it is explained that this is not allowed. Ive looked at the rules of a balk and the rule I believe they are refering to is that the pitcher once he has reached the set position can not take his hand away from the ball. He is not removing his hand from the ball he is simply patting it into his glove. He does it with runners on and with no runners on this is in no way to decieve the runner and again this is after he has already lifted his leg and just after he starts to make his clear motion to the plate. Any help on this would be fantastic because the way I read the rules for a Balk and an illegal pitch I see no infraction here. Thanks in advance. 

This is NOT a balk!  This is why we all get a bad name, .... from other umpires not knowing what the hell they're doing!  A coach not knowing the rules, ...well, that's commonplace, but the umpire needs to understand, and this particular umpire does NOT.    As Rich said, ...once the pitching motion or pick off starts, he's fine

[Catch18]

Can’t violate the rules for being “set,” once you’re no longer “set.”

Ugh, MSU rule book.

[Vegas_Ump]

Devil's advocate:  If he removes the ball the from glove isn't he committed to a delivery?  Thus, the logic used (apparently faulty) is that the pitcher "failed to deliver" when he did a pat motion and put the ball back into the glove.

I have seen only one pitcher in 34 years do that, and the Carl Childress response (way back when) was a "don't do dat!"

Apparently, a lot more wisdom has matured over the years that suggests at worst this is a booger.  It's apparently not an IP;  can't be a balk if he's using the windup motion......

Thoughts?

Mike

Las Vegas

 

[Rich Ives]

54 minutes ago, Vegas_Ump said:

Devil's advocate:  If he removes the ball the from glove isn't he committed to a delivery?  Thus, the logic used (apparently faulty) is that the pitcher "failed to deliver" when he did a pat motion and put the ball back into the glove.

I have seen only one pitcher in 34 years do that, and the Carl Childress response (way back when) was a "don't do dat!"

Apparently, a lot more wisdom has matured over the years that suggests at worst this is a booger.  It's apparently not an IP;  can't be a balk if he's using the windup motion......

Thoughts?

Mike

Las Vegas

 

In the OP he's already mid-delivery and didn't stop.

 

[BigBlue4u]

16 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

In the OP he's already mid-delivery and didn't stop.

 

 

[BigBlue4u]

Ask yourself this:  1)  Does it give the pitcher an advantage not intended by rule?  2)  Is it distracting to the batter?  If, after seeing the delivery, my answers are "no," I don't have a problem.  

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, Vegas_Ump said:

Devil's advocate:  If he removes the ball the from glove isn't he committed to a delivery?  Thus, the logic used (apparently faulty) is that the pitcher "failed to deliver" when he did a pat motion and put the ball back into the glove.

I have seen only one pitcher in 34 years do that, and the Carl Childress response (way back when) was a "don't do dat!"

Apparently, a lot more wisdom has matured over the years that suggests at worst this is a booger.  It's apparently not an IP;  can't be a balk if he's using the windup motion......

Thoughts?

Mike

Las Vegas

 

I don't think that whatever you quote CC as saying "don't do dat" is what the OP describes. The tapping of the hand in the glove, with or without the ball in that hand, during the delivery motion is not a failure to deliver as the delivery is ongoing. It's not a booger, IP or balk. While it is not a balk, when you say it can't be a balk because it's a windup you would be incorrect. There can be balks when pitchers windup with certain runner configs.