Friday LLWS Game 1pm Curacao / Panama

[Thunderheads]

I worked with the plate umpire 3x this past high school season, he also made the State Finals in Michigan  

[Velho]

He's earning his pay right now. 3 reviews in one inning (2 on same play) including a leaving early call.

With announcers not knowing how LL leaving early works (not that almost anyone does, lol).

[LC Ump]

Small world. One of the base umpires in that game is an umpiring colleague of mine from MA. And they're currently in the middle of dealing with LL Rule 7.13 - base runner leaving early. No fun!

[Thunderheads]

He's earning his pay right now. 3 reviews in one inning (2 on same play) including a leaving early call.
With announcers not knowing how LL leaving early works (not that almost anyone does, lol).

Yes he is! So is what they did correct? If one Runner leaves early all of the runners are penalized? I don't know because I don't do little league I'm just curious

Sent from my SM-A426U using Tapatalk

[LC Ump]

Yes, with runners on 2b and 3b, R2 was deemed to have left early. Both runners advanced on the play with the BR reaching first and R3 scoring.

Penalty = BR goes to first, R2 and R3 returned. LL Rule 7.13 Example 12.

The crew got together to make sure they had that right. Had the batter hit a double...see Example 13.

LL is considering changing the rule for 2023...

[Velho]

9 minutes ago, Thunderheads said:

So is what they did correct? If one Runner leaves early all of the runners are penalized? I don't know because I don't do little league I'm just curious

Yes. "One left early, they all left early" is the saying. And you push them back as close to their original base as you can.

Tangent: LL's entry to goofiest possible play is around leaving early. Situation is this: bases loaded, runner leaves early on ball put in play that stays in the infield with BR reaching 1B safely. Out come? R3 disappears. Poof. 🤯It's a LL ump bucket list play. 

Rule text:

[Velho]

1 minute ago, LC Ump said:

LL is considering changing the rule for 2023...

Yes... to follow softball (though at a different measurement point) and make the runner OUT. Yikes.

I haven't paid too close attention this year but noticed last year that most runners are not getting their hop (i.e. legal lead once pitch reaches batter). I suspect that is vigorous (over zealous?) application of the rule in the post season.

[stevis]

2 hours ago, Velho said:

Yes. "One left early, they all left early" is the saying. And you push them back as close to their original base as you can.

Tangent: LL's entry to goofiest possible play is around leaving early. Situation is this: bases loaded, runner leaves early on ball put in play that stays in the infield with BR reaching 1B safely. Out come? R3 disappears. Poof. 🤯It's a LL ump bucket list play. 

Rule text:

I had one of these at my first state 10-11 tournament.  Or rather...I should have.  Was U2, dropped the flag to mark the violation on four straight bases loaded pitches on R2....on the 5th he stayed on, and the batter hit a ground ball, E-5.  My moment, lost in time.

[The Man in Blue]

8 hours ago, Velho said:

Yes. "One left early, they all left early" is the saying. And you push them back as close to their original base as you can.

Tangent: LL's entry to goofiest possible play is around leaving early. Situation is this: bases loaded, runner leaves early on ball put in play that stays in the infield with BR reaching 1B safely. Out come? R3 disappears. Poof. 🤯It's a LL ump bucket list play. 

Rule text:

[Jay R.]

On 8/19/2022 at 2:54 PM, Velho said:

🤯It's a LL ump bucket list play. 

It took about five years of doing a lot of LL games for this to show up for me, but it did. I called it in normal league play; a runner from second was taking a HUUGE lead every pitch and I warned the coach (verbally once, and I actually used the flag that LL recommends). A dribbler that advanced everyone without a play and I had to wipe it off the board.

Both scorekeepers were confused about how to score that in their apps.

[Velho]

9 hours ago, Jay R. said:

It took about five years of doing a lot of LL games for this to show up for me, but it did

Nice!

 

9 hours ago, Jay R. said:

Both scorekeepers were confused about how to score that in their apps.

Having lived in Gamekeeper for almost 10 years, I can relate (unfortunately I can only do it by muscle memory so I'm no help during games I ump).

[Vegas_Ump]

On rule 7.13:  

If there is a violation by any runner leaving early here's a Cliff's Notes version of what you do:

First, Place the batter:  Is he still at bat?  Put everybody back.  Is he retired on the first play or any subsequent play (thrown out at second trying to stretch a single)?  Put him in the dugout and put all runners back.  He hits a home run, but he was retired for failure to touch a base on a properly executed appeal:  Put him in the dugout, and put all the runners back!

Batter hits safely:  award the batter the clean value of a hit.  He may have hit a clean double and advanced to 3B on an error.  Put him back on second.  Now, back fill the runners where you can.  (Thus it is possible for runs to score!)

Then there is the "poof" play:  bases loaded and the batter hits safely or reaches on an error in the infield.  R3 goes poof!  No run!  No out!

Remember:  This is a violation by the offense!  They must pay a penalty.  It may look Orwellian, but its the rule!

SIDE NOTE:  For every Congress that was held in my 34 years as a LL umpire, at least one District or State Association sent a rule change recommendation to align the baseball rule 7.13 with softball:  I.e., Time!  Out!  Every time, it was rejected.  (So don't hold your breath!)

Have fun!

Mike

Las Vegas

[Velho]

7 hours ago, Vegas_Ump said:

 For every Congress that was held in my 34 years as a LL umpire, at least one District or State Association sent a rule change recommendation to align the baseball rule 7.13 with softball:  I.e., Time!  Out!  Every time, it was rejected.  (So don't hold your breath!)

RIM has that as league for Minors and Tee ball. 🤷‍♂️

 

7 hours ago, Vegas_Ump said:

 Is he retired on ... any subsequent play (thrown out at second trying to stretch a single)?  Put him in the dugout and put all runners back.

Agreed that's what the RIM says but the logic of this eludes me. It was a clean single. This was over-thought imo.

 

* I pray I never have to put 3 kids back because a BR tried to stretch for an inside the park HR.

[SJA]

Remember, the RIM does NOT replace the Official LL Rule Book.

 

 

[Velho]

13 hours ago, SJA said:

Remember, the RIM does NOT replace the Official LL Rule Book.

Thanks @SJA . I'm guessing your pointing out a triple attempting to stretch & placing runners back vs. 7.13(c) example 7 (below) which indicates don't place them back?

I have missed Regional training the last few years for my own kids' activities so haven't heard how this is being taught. What are people being told?

Seems the gap is the lack of the rules addressing clean double/triple + otherwise caught advancing - which the RIM does address is the issue.