Fielder's Choice?

[Guest Tony]

 

0 out, man on first, fly to right (can of corn). RF drops ball (camped under), but throws out man from first to second. Is this an error on right fielder or fielers choice? And why? High school ball.

[noumpere]

Fielder's Choice -- 9-5-5 Excp 5 (2017 rules book)

[Senor Azul]

2019 NFHS rule 9 ART. 5 . . . An error is charged against a fielder or a team for each misplay that prolongs the time at bat of the batter or the time a player continues to be a runner, or permits the runner to advance one or more bases.

EXCEPTIONS:

5. If a fielder drops a fair fly ball but recovers in time to force out a runner, he is not charged with an error. It is recorded as a force-out.

An assist and a putout are recorded on the successful force play made on the runner. The batter is considered as having reached base on a fielder’s choice. The rationale is that the outcome of the play is the same as if the fielder had caught the ball—there is one more out and a runner on first base. So score the play at second base as 9-4 or 9-6 (or whoever took the throw at second base) and show the batter reaching first base on the FC.

One caveat is that the error is ignored only if it’s a force play following the dropped fly ball. If an unforced putout is made after the dropped fly ball the error is charged to the fielder and the batter is shown as having reached base on the error.

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, noumpere said:

Fielder's Choice -- 9-5-5 Excp 5 (2017 rules book)

 

40 minutes ago, Senor Azul said:

2019 NFHS rule 9 ART. 5 . . . An error is charged against a fielder or a team for each misplay that prolongs the time at bat of the batter or the time a player continues to be a runner, or permits the runner to advance one or more bases.

EXCEPTIONS:

5. If a fielder drops a fair fly ball but recovers in time to force out a runner, he is not charged with an error. It is recorded as a force-out.

An assist and a putout are recorded on the successful force play made on the runner. The batter is considered as having reached base on a fielder’s choice. The rationale is that the outcome of the play is the same as if the fielder had caught the ball—there is one more out and a runner on first base. So score the play at second base as 9-4 or 9-6 (or whoever took the throw at second base) and show the batter reaching first base on the FC.

One caveat is that the error is ignored only if it’s a force play following the dropped fly ball. If an unforced putout is made after the dropped fly ball the error is charged to the fielder and the batter is shown as having reached base on the error.

 

1 hour ago, noumpere said:

Fielder's Choice -- 9-5-5 Excp 5 (2017 rules book)

I'm amazed. You are umpires and still have those pages from chapter 9, except for page 1, in your book. 🙂

[Rich Ives]

13 hours ago, Guest Tony said:

 

0 out, man on first, fly to right (can of corn). RF drops ball (camped under), but throws out man from first to second. Is this an error on right fielder or fielders choice? And why? High school ball.

No error. No FC.  R1 out at second on a force  9-6  (or maybe 9-4).  

[Senor Azul]

Mr. Rich Ives, a scorekeeper has to account for every runner, including the batter-runner. You told us how you would account for R1 but not the batter-runner. There are just three ways a scorekeeper can choose to account for a batter’s safe arrival at first after the batter has put the ball into play. Those ways are on a hit, an error, or a fielder’s choice. Here’s how Andres Wirkmaa explains it in his book Baseball Scorekeeping on page 47—

“Absent interference or obstruction, if a batter reaches base safely and it wasn’t on a base hit, he reached base on an error or on a fielder’s choice. If he reaches base safely and it wasn’t by virtue of an error, he reached on a fielder’s choice or by way of a base hit. If he reaches base safely and it wasn’t on a fielder’s choice, it had to have been on a base hit, or he reached base on an error.”

So you gotta pick one of those three ways to account for the batter achieving first base. You, yourself, have already ruled out the possibility of an error so it has to be a hit or a fielder’s choice. The author Mr. Wirkmaa says on page 162 of his book that the batter is considered to have become a runner on a fielder’s choice—when dealing with a dropped fly ball and an ensuing force out.

[Rich Ives]

7 hours ago, Senor Azul said:

Mr. Rich Ives, a scorekeeper has to account for every runner, including the batter-runner. You told us how you would account for R1 but not the batter-runner. There are just three ways a scorekeeper can choose to account for a batter’s safe arrival at first after the batter has put the ball into play. Those ways are on a hit, an error, or a fielder’s choice. Here’s how Andres Wirkmaa explains it in his book Baseball Scorekeeping on page 47—

“Absent interference or obstruction, if a batter reaches base safely and it wasn’t on a base hit, he reached base on an error or on a fielder’s choice. If he reaches base safely and it wasn’t by virtue of an error, he reached on a fielder’s choice or by way of a base hit. If he reaches base safely and it wasn’t on a fielder’s choice, it had to have been on a base hit, or he reached base on an error.”

So you gotta pick one of those three ways to account for the batter achieving first base. You, yourself, have already ruled out the possibility of an error so it has to be a hit or a fielder’s choice. The author Mr. Wirkmaa says on page 162 of his book that the batter is considered to have become a runner on a fielder’s choice—when dealing with a dropped fly ball and an ensuing force out.

 

That wasn't the question. The question was about R1 and how to score the play on him.

[beerguy55]

On 2/20/2022 at 11:15 PM, Rich Ives said:

 

That wasn't the question. The question was about R1 and how to score the play on him.

Nope - it was a question on the play in general.  Nothing in the OP suggests otherwise, let alone your statement.  And in fact, implicitly the question is about the batter.  R1 is out - since he didn't advance there is no reason to account for him, except to record  a putout.  The question is how to explain the batter/runner reaching first.