Ball Modifying

[Guest Curtis]

A team in our state uses some type of devise (stamp or laser) to etch their logo on the ball. It completely removes the leather from that area. 

Rule 1-3 art. 6 of the NFHS softball rule book states that you cannot "deface" the ball. Is this ball illegal? I don't believe that they are modifying the ball for advantage, but none the less it does create an issue in my eyes. I want to make sure I'm interpreting this right before I get on my ant hill. 

[beerguy55]

3 hours ago, Guest Curtis said:

A team in our state uses some type of devise (stamp or laser) to etch their logo on the ball. It completely removes the leather from that area. 

Rule 1-3 art. 6 of the NFHS softball rule book states that you cannot "deface" the ball. Is this ball illegal? I don't believe that they are modifying the ball for advantage, but none the less it does create an issue in my eyes. I want to make sure I'm interpreting this right before I get on my ant hill. 

Provided that the device is branding their logo, and physically altering the surface (ie. burning away the fabric), I would say this meets the standard of "deface" the rule book is trying to address, and does address in a few different places...the pitcher may not deface the ball (ie. scratch/scuff the surface)...you may not use any bats or equipment that may deface the ball. 

In your case it sounds like the ball is marked up, and if the surface has been altered, so you now have a doctored ball.   It's going to move in some unpredictable fashion, if you know how to take advantage of it.

I suspect that would be the same in any rule set. 

Just don't get stuck on the dictionary definition of "deface" - writing the team logo in Sharpie to identify the ball as belonging to the team is also "defacing" the ball, but doesn't meet the spirit of the rule, IMO. 

 

 

[ArchAngel72]

If they used a marker or stamp that wrote on the ball to put their logo on it .. So long as it did not make the ball black all over. Me yeah no worries.

 

But altering the surface of the ball that it actually cuts scuffs or eats away at the surface of the ball. Nope that to me is no different than using a nail file to deface the ball.

Granted they are not doing it to gain advantage.  Its defacing the surface of the ball in a manner that someone can and will get more advantage on grip or spin or movement on a pitch

[BLWizzRanger]

16 hours ago, ArchAngel72 said:

Granted they are not doing it to gain advantage.  Its defacing the surface of the ball in a manner that someone can and will get more advantage on grip or spin or movement on a pitch

Well, they could be trying to gain an advantage in an innocuous branding.  The coach probably has coached up his players on how to use it if the mark is there on a consistent basis.

[beerguy55]

49 minutes ago, BLWizzRanger said:

Well, they could be trying to gain an advantage in an innocuous branding.  The coach probably has coached up his players on how to use it if the mark is there on a consistent basis.

And even if the coach hasn't, you can guarantee some of the pitchers have figured it out.   At the high school age, many pitchers are able to figure out how to use the scuff marks that appear on the ball naturally during the game to their advantage...of course they know how to use the branded logo on their team balls.

[boyinr]

22 hours ago, ArchAngel72 said:

Granted they are not doing it to gain advantage.  

Yes I am cynical.  No one does something for nothing.  Done correctly, this could make that ball dance.  Movement is everything in FPSB. 

I am sure that Gaylord Perry was using sandpaper just to take the shine off the ball so the reflection didn't get in the hitters eye.  

[Velho]

6 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

At the high school age, many pitchers are able to figure out how to use the scuff marks that appear on the ball naturally during the game to their advantage...of course they know how to use the branded logo on their team balls.

Tangenting... I've thought about as well so I started polling. Small sample size to date (3 HS pitchers) none had any idea what I was talking about. 

[beerguy55]

1 hour ago, Velho said:

Tangenting... I've thought about as well so I started polling. Small sample size to date (3 HS pitchers) none had any idea what I was talking about. 

Then things have changed since I was that age.  Every pitcher I played with knew how to take advantage of imperfections on the ball, whether they were created, or just a result of game play.   Now, this was at a time where you got two new balls for the game...not sure what the standard is today.

[Velho]

1 hour ago, beerguy55 said:

Then things have changed since I was that age.  Every pitcher I played with knew how to take advantage of imperfections on the ball, whether they were created, or just a result of game play.

Completely agree. Let's just say that following my polling, the knowledge is still alive. 😁

 

[MadMax]

There’s a few things at “play” here: 

- Is this defaced (and yes, they’re defaced by what you describe) softball being used for actual sanctioned HS games? They can’t. Balls (both baseballs and softballs) must bear the manufacturer’s logos, the NFHS logo, and whatever NOCSAE certification is appropriate and approved for gameplay. A team (ultimately, a school) is not allowed to add anything to these balls for sanctioned gameplay that isn’t approved by the governing body (in this case, the state). If the team is doing this, is their school aware they are, and risking penalties to the program and school? If the school is doing this, is the state aware? Likely not. 
- Is this ball being used for non-sanctioned tournaments, invites, or some sort of scrimmaging (ie. “Fall ball”) structure? In this case, as the hosting team, it’s in poor taste to deface the balls like this, but it is ultimately their decision to do so. If your own team does not like this practice, then it is your prerogative to withdraw (and certainly file for a refund), but there isn’t, nor will you get any support from the NFHS governing body, since these are non-sanctioned games. Private leagues and associations have latitude (albeit limited, but still) to use equipment of their choosing and approval. 
 

I have two examples of this: 

1) Plenty of amateur tournament series use NFHS Rules set for their own rules, then put their own enhancements upon it. They’ll bat the entire roster in the lineup, only allow one free conference per inning, and also allow the catcher to wear a two-piece mask & helmet (ie. skullcap). 

2) These same series will supply baseballs that lack any NFHS or NOCSAE logos. One tournament series I know of, near and dear to my heart, uses Wilson A1030 Blemish baseballs… because they’re just like the HS-approved baseballs, but far cheaper in bulk. We’ll start a game day with 4 of these A1030 Blems, and by the end of the day, on the 4th (or 5th… or if our assigner is being particularly insensitive, 6th) game, I’ll have a few Wilsons, a few Diamonds, and some Badens. 

We’d need some clarification here… is this a team / school doing this to their NFHS -sanctioned games, or is this a team / club hosting their own “unaffiliated” events?