Balk?

[calablue]

OBR......R1, RH F1 steps on the rubber, in what is eventually going to be the set position, and is fiddling around then snaps his shoulders toward 1st base, back to fiddling around then repeats shoulder snap. Is it a balk as soon as he snaps shoulders around the first time?  

[Jimurray]

33 minutes ago, calablue said:

OBR......R1, RH F1 steps on the rubber, in what is eventually going to be the set position, and is fiddling around then snaps his shoulders toward 1st base, back to fiddling around then repeats shoulder snap. Is it a balk as soon as he snaps shoulders around the first time?  

Before coming set, a pitcher can turn and look at 1B no matter how fast he snaps. There is a very slight possibility you could judge a feint without a step if some arm motion was involved.

[The Short Umpire]

When the pitcher steps on the rubber and prior to coming to a set position he is in his preliminary motion known as “the stretch.” 
 

“from this position he shall go to his set position as defined in Rule 5.07(a)(2) without interruption and in one continuous motion.”

I would not rule this a balk unless you deem that he has begun his transition into the set position but interrupted himself. 

[calablue]

8 hours ago, The Short Umpire said:

When the pitcher steps on the rubber and prior to coming to a set position he is in his preliminary motion known as “the stretch.” 
 

“from this position he shall go to his set position as defined in Rule 5.07(a)(2) without interruption and in one continuous motion.”

I would not rule this a balk unless you deem that he has begun his transition into the set position but interrupted himself. 

Not sure I agree with the wording of your first statement. I don’t think that just stepping on the rubber constitutes the start of the “stretch”.  As far as calling a balk, not gonna happen unless I can explain why it is one. 

[calablue]

9 hours ago, Jimurray said:

Before coming set, a pitcher can turn and look at 1B no matter how fast he snaps. There is a very slight possibility you could judge a feint without a step if some arm motion was involved.

Just to clarify, he does this prior to taking the position that most pitchers assume to take their signs, not during the transition from sign taking to set position. 

[maven]

10 hours ago, calablue said:

OBR......R1, RH F1 steps on the rubber, in what is eventually going to be the set position, and is fiddling around then snaps his shoulders toward 1st base, back to fiddling around then repeats shoulder snap. Is it a balk as soon as he snaps shoulders around the first time?  

As I read this, the feint toward first occurs before F1 has properly engage the rubber. Thus, the pitching restrictions are not yet in effect.

If that's all that's going on, this is nothing. Same in all codes.

[calablue]

14 minutes ago, maven said:

As I read this, the feint toward first occurs before F1 has properly engage the rubber. Thus, the pitching restrictions are not yet in effect.

If that's all that's going on, this is nothing. Same in all codes.

I’m not sure I understand. He has stepped onto the rubber intentionally and is standing there fiddling around. What do you mean by “ Before F1 has properly engage the rubber. “. How does the pitcher properly engage the rubber? No sarcasm here, I’m trying to understand at what point this would be a balk and when it would not. 

[The Short Umpire]

what do you mean by “fiddling around?”

[The Man in Blue]

3 hours ago, calablue said:

I’m not sure I understand. He has stepped onto the rubber intentionally and is standing there fiddling around. What do you mean by “ Before F1 has properly engage the rubber. “. How does the pitcher properly engage the rubber? No sarcasm here, I’m trying to understand at what point this would be a balk and when it would not. 

 

 

So ... you didn't have that day in middle school when the boys went to one room and the girls went to another ... 

[calablue]

2 hours ago, The Short Umpire said:

what do you mean by “fiddling around?”

I don’t really remember what he was doing. The ball was in his right hand maybe rubbing his crotch with his glove , looking up, down, around in general, not taking signs and not making any type movements that indicated he was ready to come to the set position. Not sure how it matters. He wasn’t set, and he wasn’t doing his stretch yet.

[noumpere]

The rules do not describe any specific motion (e.g., your "snaps his shoulders" in the OP) when describing a balk.  It's up to the umpire to determine whether that meets the description of "The pitcher, while touching his plate, feints a throw to
first or third base and fails to complete the throw;"

As a general rule, more leeway is given to the pitcher's movements before he comes set, but the faster and greater the movement, the more likely it is to be a balk.

[calablue]

4 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

 

 

So ... you didn't have that day in middle school when the boys went to one room and the girls went to another ... 

Actually, no I didn’t. LOLActually, no I didn’t. LOL

[calablue]

2 hours ago, noumpere said:

The rules do not describe any specific motion (e.g., your "snaps his shoulders" in the OP) when describing a balk.  It's up to the umpire to determine whether that meets the description of "The pitcher, while touching his plate, feints a throw to
first or third base and fails to complete the throw;"

As a general rule, more leeway is given to the pitcher's movements before he comes set, but the faster and greater the movement, the more likely it is to be a balk.

I’m sure I wasn’t clear in the OP but my real question here is: does he become bound by the pitching rules as soon as he intentionally steps on the rubber?

[Biscuit]

On 3/9/2020 at 3:21 PM, calablue said:

I’m sure I wasn’t clear in the OP but my real question here is: does he become bound by the pitching rules as soon as he intentionally steps on the rubber?

Yes, but even then, the difference between being set and not gives different requirements for a balk.