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Hidden Ball struck Balk FED

LittleBlue

By LittleBlue
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LittleBlue

LittleBlue

Posted
Posted

Not sure if this is being discussed, but if so, please direct me appropriately.

In the article Gil says that the FED rule for the hidden ball trick is that the pitcher can't be more than 5 feet from the pitchers plate. My question is how do we apply this rule and this distance? Do we use the dirt mount as a guide or do we try our best to approximate 5 feet?

http://www.closecallsports.com/2017/05/milb-wilhelms-ejects-lopez-on-hidden.html?m=1

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ElkOil
ElkOil

Oh, sure. And risk THIS?!?  

udbrky
udbrky

With a stopwatch, my broom and clicker, going to need a tool belt on the bases soon!

maven
maven

I recommend one of these: https://www.ebay.com/p/?iid=201838506207&lpid=82&&&ul_noapp=true&chn=ps

ALStripes17

ALStripes17

Posted
Posted
Not sure if this is being discussed, but if so, please direct me appropriately.
In the article Gil says that the FED rule for the hidden ball trick is that the pitcher can't be more than 5 feet from the pitchers plate. My question is how do we apply this rule and this distance? Do we use the dirt mount as a guide or do we try our best to approximate 5 feet?
http://www.closecallsports.com/2017/05/milb-wilhelms-ejects-lopez-on-hidden.html?m=1

Tape measure...

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BrianC14

BrianC14

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, LittleBlue said:

Not sure if this is being discussed, but if so, please direct me appropriately.

In the article Gil says that the FED rule for the hidden ball trick is that the pitcher can't be more than 5 feet from the pitchers plate. My question is how do we apply this rule and this distance? Do we use the dirt mount as a guide or do we try our best to approximate 5 feet?

http://www.closecallsports.com/2017/05/milb-wilhelms-ejects-lopez-on-hidden.html?m=1

Actually the rule says he cannot be any CLOSER than five feet from the pitcher's plate.  If a mound is properly constructed, the pitcher shouldn't be anywhere on the dirt circle , from the back of the mound, as a guide for the five feet).

If you'reworking on one of those multi-purpose fields (all dirt), and they haven't provided a chalk circle, you can try to imagine that five feet by estimating the pitcher's height, and where he would be if he were lying down towards the top of the hill.   Estimate it.  And good luck getting this handledin 2-man. ;)  And as your link shows, each rule set varies.

Rich Ives

Rich Ives

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, LittleBlue said:

Not sure if this is being discussed, but if so, please direct me appropriately.

In the article Gil says that the FED rule for the hidden ball trick is that the pitcher can't be more than 5 feet from the pitchers plate. My question is how do we apply this rule and this distance? Do we use the dirt mount as a guide or do we try our best to approximate 5 feet?

http://www.closecallsports.com/2017/05/milb-wilhelms-ejects-lopez-on-hidden.html?m=1

Can't be LESS than.  Must be more than 5' from the rubber in FED.

 

Stk004

Stk004

Posted
Posted

Do you guys think BU didn't know where the ball was? I can't imagine why he'd be going back and forth between F5 and F1 unless he didn't know who had the ball. Both umpires looked just as surprised as the offense. 

grayhawk

grayhawk

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, BrianC14 said:

Actually the rule says he cannot be any CLOSER than five feet from the pitcher's plate.  If a mound is properly constructed, the pitcher shouldn't be anywhere on the dirt circle , from the back of the mound, as a guide for the five feet).

A regulation mound is 18 feet in diameter, so he can be approximately 4 feet onto the dirt and be legal.

BrianC14

BrianC14

Posted
Posted
Just now, grayhawk said:

A regulation mound is 18 feet in diameter, so he can be approximately 4 feet onto the dirt and be legal.

The pitcher's plate is not the geographic center of the mound.  It typically sits about 2.5 to 3 feet beyond center.  That leaves about 6 feet from the back of the pitcher's plate.  Assuming a pitcher places his feet just inside the back the circle, he would be approximately at five feet away from the pitcher's plate. 

Also, I think it's generous to call most high school pitcher's mounds 18 feet in diameter. 

Stk004

Stk004

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, BrianC14 said:

The pitcher's plate is not the geographic center of the mound.  It typically sits about 2.5 to 3 feet beyond center.  That leaves about 6 feet from the back of the pitcher's plate.  Assuming a pitcher places his feet just inside the back the circle, he would be approximately at five feet away from the pitcher's plate. 

Also, I think it's generous to call most high school pitcher's mounds 18 feet in diameter. 

I wouldn't put money on this but I'm pretty sure the mound is only 6" back from center. 

BrianC14

BrianC14

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Stk004 said:

I wouldn't put money on this but I'm pretty sure the mound is only 6" back from center. 

I think you're right.   I had downloadeda pdf diagram but can't seem to upload it from the phone.  I thought I had seen dimensions that put it slightly farther back, more than 6", but I must have misread it.

In my area, if most high school mounds are 18 feet, they sure look as though they are cheating on the back side. 

MadMax

MadMax

Posted
Posted

This is one of those cases where the NCAA and NFHS are more similar than what appears in print. College makes it real easy on interpretation: the dirt of the mound, whether it be 6'5" or 9'0" (radius) is your cleanly defined "zone". I reckon that Fed, despite its pendantic particulars, would adopt the same definition... if they could. However, there are a substantial number (staggering, really) of fields that are skinned (all dirt) infields or lack mounds completely (think Frosh and JV). They have to accommodate the lowest common denominator (within reason), thus a 5(ish)-foot radius.

While we're on the topic, please remember, there cannot be a HBT out of a dead-ball situation, and a Balk is the incorrect call should one be attempted out of a dead-ball situation. Even if the PU (erroneously) calls "Play!" and mechanics "Live", the conditions of making the ball Live were not met, thus the ball is still Dead – no out(s) can be recorded, nor can Balks be declared. It's simply "Ha! Nice try, now get the ball back to the pitcher and let's resume the game for real".

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grayhawk

grayhawk

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Stk004 said:

I wouldn't put money on this but I'm pretty sure the mound is only 6" back from center. 

It doesn't really matter, because the vast majority of the time, the pitcher stays completely off the dirt anyway.  I've seen it twice this year and both times, the pitcher was off the mound.

Stk004

Stk004

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, udbrky said:

With a stopwatch, my broom and clicker, going to need a tool belt on the bases soon!

I couldn't decide whether I wanted to throw up my guts or just roll over and die when I read this post. :Facepalm:

  • Like 2
ALStripes17

ALStripes17

Posted
Posted
Click the link for HS and college.  There's detail for the mound. Sure looks like it's off center.  Note the 9 foot radius point.
http://www.hksportsfields.com/baseball-field-dimensions/

Are we really discussing this for FED?

It's 5 freakin feet people. Diagrams drawn to scale or not, it's 5 feet.

Again... It's 5 feet!

This discussion comes from the same people that have to approximate (read: JUDGE) the 'midpoint between the top of the batters shoulders and the top of the uniform pant.

Come on guys...

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BrianC14

BrianC14

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, ALStripes17 said:


Are we really discussing this for FED?

It's 5 freakin feet people. Diagrams drawn to scale or not, it's 5 feet.

Again... It's 5 feet!

This discussion comes from the same people that have to approximate (read: JUDGE) the 'midpoint between the top of the batters shoulders and the top of the uniform pant.

Come on guys...

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Ok, so you're saying it's five feet.   But what about for night games? 

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ALStripes17

ALStripes17

Posted
Posted
Ok, so you're saying it's five feet.   But what about for night games? 

152.4 cm post twi-light

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BrianC14

BrianC14

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, udbrky said:

With a stopwatch, my broom and clicker, going to need a tool belt on the bases soon!

Tool belt?  The heck with that - too cumbersome, and too noisy.  How are you going to sneak up to 3B on rotations making all that noise? 

I am now thinking about using a bucket  (with custom padded top, of course) behind the plate. That arrangement will also allow for comfort along with cold drinks and a reasonable supply of snacks, seeds, peanuts within easy reach.  This could revolutionize officiating.    

Hey..... with a set of wheels on the bucket and a good-sized motor.....   :o

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BrianC14

BrianC14

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, ALStripes17 said:


152.4 cm post twi-light

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Really?   Metric?  When will people learn. ....?

ALStripes17

ALStripes17

Posted
Posted
Really?   Metric?  When will people learn. ....?

Silly FED...

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KenBAZ

KenBAZ

Posted
Posted

I had a balk on the HBT early this HS season. Only F5, F1 and I knew where the ball was. F1 walked within a couple of feet of the rubber and when I balked him no one had any idea why until I turned to F5 and said, "where is the baseball."

 

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udbrky

udbrky

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, KenBAZ said:

I had a balk on the HBT early this HS season. Only F5, F1 and I knew where the ball was. F1 walked within a couple of feet of the rubber and when I balked him no one had any idea why until I turned to F5 and said, "where is the baseball."

 

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Had a borderline the other day doing a couple small non-state sanctioned schools. It was way lopsided and more experienced team pulled it. Pitcher was just at edge of the dirt, but the field was set up so that they could do 50/70 and everything was smaller. Not sure the exact dimensions of the mound, but it had to have been pretty close to 10'. 

I kept trying to figure out where I was at, because the cutout was like 10' in from where I was used to for B and C.

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