Asking ump if a pitch would have been a strike

[beerguy55]

I've asked umpires if the pitch I swung at was a strike, and they've typically answered with yes, no, or pretty close, and I give a little "thank you".  

I'm just trying to establish one simple thing - Are the umpire and I seeing the same strike zone.  Don't really care who's right or wrong because only one opinion matters.

Except this one exchange:

Me: Was that a strike?

Him: Yeah - You swung at it.   (this is either him being a smart-ass or him being Rainman/Captain Obvious - I bit my tongue)

Me: Would it have been a strike if I didn't swing?

Him: We've been instructed to not answer that question.

Me: ???

Can you see where umpire groups would have this instruction?  Or have you seen it?   Do you answer this question when asked?

Is it more likely he just didn't want to answer the question?  Or maybe didn't know the answer?  

I've also asked on half swings ruled as strikes "did you call it, or did I go?"   I've never had a problem getting the response - I called it, you went, or both/didn't matter..."thank you".

[beerguy55]

On 1/10/2017 at 8:32 AM, ALStripes17 said:

The point was that answering just 'yep' actually manages the conversation and keeps it succinct.

The batter is only asking bc the pitch was borderline. It's not jerkish to tell him 'yes'.

If a similar pitch comes by anyway, the batter/catcher will always see it in their favor anyway... Them using 'you said that was a ball(strike) earlier' is an excuse because we know one pitch is NEVER the EXACT same as a previous one.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

I never thought I'd create this crapstorm.  

Anyway, from my perspective, I'm not questioning the umpire's judgment, I'm questioning mine.  I just want to see if I'm seeing what the ump is seeing.  I'm not gonna hold the ump to that exact point in time and space later in the game or the season...it's just another piece of information to help me as a hitter.

I've only ever asked the question on third strike because my batting approach leads to it:

1. I'm very aggressive - I like, and hit well, a lot of pitches, and not all of them are in the zone - as a result, I might get to two strikes one in ten at bats, and I might strike out one in 100 at bats.

2. So, until two strikes, I really don't care if it's in the strike zone or not...if I like the pitch I'm taking a crack at it

3. And, there are pitches in the strike zone I'm very weak with - I don't swing at those until I have two strikes.

4. So, with two strikes I want to be sure I'm on the same page as the umpire.  If it's a pitch I like I'm swinging regardless of where it is.  But if it's a pitch I hate, I'm only swinging at it if I'm pretty sure the ump will call it a strike.

 

When I do hitting clinics for my players and association in the off season I ask the players "have you ever had an umpire call a third strike that was either at your chin or at your ankles?"  They, of course, all say "yes".  And my response is "Why are you giving the pitcher two strikes?"

 

[Mister B]

I guess if I'm going to f' things up really good, it's better that I do it in here than on the field. Apologies for the frustration, many thanks for the lesson learned. 

[Thunderheads]

5 hours ago, Mister B said:

I guess if I'm going to f' things up really good, it's better that I do it in here than on the field. Apologies for the frustration, many thanks for the lesson learned. 

Everyone .... THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^ is a GREAT POST!!   Thanks @Mister B !

[BT_Blue]

On Tue Jan 10 2017 at 6:02 AM, ZebraStripes said:

I'm glad I haven't had the displeasure of working with jackasses such as yourself.  You seem to be creating more problems than you solve. 

I bet you have. We all have!

[maineump]

By answering the question from the batter - you are also giving clues to the catcher, which helps both teams at once.

Hitters aren't generally being a smart *ss when they ask - they truly are asking if they hadn't made an offer, would it have been in the zone.

Just answer the question when they ask - you can even nod or shake your head if you want, just don't be a hard ass about it. We all are there for a couple of hours, might as well work with everyone, because being the 1-man on an island will make for a long day.

[maineump]

On ‎1‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 11:49 AM, beerguy55 said:

I never thought I'd create this crapstorm.  

Anyway, from my perspective, I'm not questioning the umpire's judgment, I'm questioning mine.  I just want to see if I'm seeing what the ump is seeing.  I'm not gonna hold the ump to that exact point in time and space later in the game or the season...it's just another piece of information to help me as a hitter.

I've only ever asked the question on third strike because my batting approach leads to it:

1. I'm very aggressive - I like, and hit well, a lot of pitches, and not all of them are in the zone - as a result, I might get to two strikes one in ten at bats, and I might strike out one in 100 at bats.

2. So, until two strikes, I really don't care if it's in the strike zone or not...if I like the pitch I'm taking a crack at it

3. And, there are pitches in the strike zone I'm very weak with - I don't swing at those until I have two strikes.

4. So, with two strikes I want to be sure I'm on the same page as the umpire.  If it's a pitch I like I'm swinging regardless of where it is.  But if it's a pitch I hate, I'm only swinging at it if I'm pretty sure the ump will call it a strike.

 

When I do hitting clinics for my players and association in the off season I ask the players "have you ever had an umpire call a third strike that was either at your chin or at your ankles?"  They, of course, all say "yes".  And my response is "Why are you giving the pitcher two strikes?"

 

It is good advice to not to let it get to 2 strikes, but if you are asking on your 2nd or 3rd time at bat, then you are not paying attention while you are at bat or during your teammates times at bat.

All umpires like hitters that swing the bat - it makes the game go by and keeps it moving smoothly. Just remember to be careful when you ask, the circumstances when you ask, might be a bad time or any inflection or perceived inflection in your voice can cause issues with some guys and put them on the defensive.

Simply ask, "was that in the zone" - very short, very simple. If you ask wrong, then it may come across that you are questioning balls/strikes.

[beerguy55]

6 minutes ago, maineump said:

It is good advice to not to let it get to 2 strikes, but if you are asking on your 2nd or 3rd time at bat, then you are not paying attention while you are at bat or during your teammates times at bat.

 

I don't necessarily disagree, but keep in mind that talking to other players about their at bat is different than being there.  As well, seeing something from the bench or even batter's circle is a lot different than being in the box.  How many times have you had an entire bench show discontent because they see a pitch that crossed at the belt, but they can't see that the pitch was eight inches outside.  I use bench time to figure out timing more than strike zone...especially left/right...up/down is easy to learn within the first five or six batters...left/right is much more difficult - especially as it often varies between left and right handed batters.   If I'm playing center field or catcher I can get a lot of information...not as much from the other positions.

Plus, I would estimate that at least a third of the games I have played in my adult life I have gone to my third at bat having seen only two pitches.

But, yes, "was that in the zone" looks like the best way to ask it.  Thanks

[maineump]

1 hour ago, beerguy55 said:

I don't necessarily disagree, but keep in mind that talking to other players about their at bat is different than being there.  As well, seeing something from the bench or even batter's circle is a lot different than being in the box.  How many times have you had an entire bench show discontent because they see a pitch that crossed at the belt, but they can't see that the pitch was eight inches outside.  I use bench time to figure out timing more than strike zone...especially left/right...up/down is easy to learn within the first five or six batters...left/right is much more difficult - especially as it often varies between left and right handed batters.   If I'm playing center field or catcher I can get a lot of information...not as much from the other positions.

Plus, I would estimate that at least a third of the games I have played in my adult life I have gone to my third at bat having seen only two pitches.

But, yes, "was that in the zone" looks like the best way to ask it.  Thanks

I'm not trying to start anything here, but are you playing in an adult league? Not saying it is bad and I applaud you for still playing, but generally - umpires get grief from (not saying you in particular) from hitters, thinking they know better than the umpire in adult leagues. Some believe that there are scouts in the seats.

I played to a high level of ball, I was a catcher and it is common for hitters to ask (on the first time through). It didn't matter which pitches I called, they were trying to see the zone. As a catcher, I would ALWAYS tell my team what the zone for the day was. We did communicate as hitters and always talked about what we were seeing, more from the pitcher than the umpires.

As a coach, I applaud you for telling the kids not to get to 2 strikes, but they are kids and always will. It's not the umpire's fault if they swing at bad pitches or don't swing at the good ones.

Just be polite (especially in adult ball) and always thank him after he answers, it will go a long way.

[beerguy55]

1 hour ago, maineump said:

As a coach, I applaud you for telling the kids not to get to 2 strikes, but they are kids and always will. It's not the umpire's fault if they swing at bad pitches or don't swing at the good ones.

 

The point for the players is two fold.    First - I run into a lot of kids that wait for two strikes before they swing...mainly because they are looking for one exact perfect pitch that enters a zone that is exactly the size of the ball.  Other times because they just have no confidence.  No hitter in the history of baseball hits better with two strikes than with zero strikes.  The purpose is to hit...especially at the young ages.  You never know what you can and can't hit if you don't swing the bat.  Leave the walking and tiring out pitchers for when you have more experience...but even then...hit.  And I HATE this "don't swing until you get a strike" tactic coaches have.  They're looking at short term goals of trying to win that game against a wild pitcher...they're not looking at the long-term benefit of the batter...especially at the younger ages.  

Second - why put your fate into the umpire's hands.  You're gonna get great umps and you're gonna get bad umps.  Umps have good and bad days just like the players and coaches.  Why would put yourself in a position to let an umpire decide if you struck out?  And yes, absolutely lesson one...it's never an umpire's fault that you struck out. 

 

1 hour ago, maineump said:

Just be polite (especially in adult ball) and always thank him after he answers, it will go a long way.

Always...OK...almost always....98% of my conversations with Blue end with "thank you", whether I was coach or a player (I gave it up a couple of years ago - the mind is willing, the body is useless).

[umpstu]

On 1/9/2017 at 11:51 PM, Mister B said:

@MadMax, some of it is that, some of it is attitude, most of it is HTBT. Asking "Was that a strike?" after swinging at a pitch is a dumb question. Perhaps there was a different meaning, but expecting every umpire to know what you mean is presumptuous. "Woulda been one?" is a better way to phrase the question, there is an implication that the batter knows it was a strike by definition. But to refer to the PU as a Smart Ass and biting his tongue shows a lack of respect. But HTBT. Maybe the PU was in a playful mood, maybe he wasn't. We don't know. In this case, it seems that the batter wanted a certain amount of respect. If that's the case, he needs to show the umpire the same respect and instead of thinking of the PU as a smart ass, and rephrasing the question in a manner that could show some condescension. He could have said, "Okay, dumb question. What if I hadn't swung?" As for the conversation after that, who knows why the PU said what he did. 

I love being a smart ass, especially if I know the batter well.  I will say, Duh. You swung at it.  Not sure why you have an issue with his question.

As for me, I have no issues whatsoever with answering the batter's question.  If he's struggling I might tell him that it was a strike just to help him with his ego.  And definitely will let him know why I called a check swing a strike.  I don't see an issue.  And you acting like that while on the dish, or anywhere on the field, is bringing unwanted negative attention to the umpires.

 

[umpstu]

On 1/9/2017 at 0:26 PM, beerguy55 said:

I've asked umpires if the pitch I swung at was a strike, and they've typically answered with yes, no, or pretty close, and I give a little "thank you".  

I'm just trying to establish one simple thing - Are the umpire and I seeing the same strike zone.  Don't really care who's right or wrong because only one opinion matters.

Except this one exchange:

Me: Was that a strike?

Him: Yeah - You swung at it.   (this is either him being a smart-ass or him being Rainman/Captain Obvious - I bit my tongue)

Me: Would it have been a strike if I didn't swing?

Him: We've been instructed to not answer that question.

Me: ???

Can you see where umpire groups would have this instruction?  Or have you seen it?   Do you answer this question when asked?

Is it more likely he just didn't want to answer the question?  Or maybe didn't know the answer?  

I've also asked on half swings ruled as strikes "did you call it, or did I go?"   I've never had a problem getting the response - I called it, you went, or both/didn't matter..."thank you".

It's fun to be a smart ass sometimes.  Especially if you know your players.  I will say, Duh. You swung at it just for a laugh with the kid.  And then I will let him know what I had. I might even bring the catcher into the conversation and ask him if he had a strike as well.  I don't see an issue with answering a simple question.

Now, if the question is where do you get your glasses, well, then we might have an issue.  lol  It's just baseball. It's a game.  It's supposed to be fun.  You say play when you put the ball in play, not work.

 

[VolUmp]

I don't mind the question, "Was that a strike?"  I only do HS and 18+, so it seems legit coming from these guys.  I'll either say, "Yep" as ALStripes suggested, or I'll even tell the batter, "Nope ... little in/out/up/down."  Regardless of how they ask, I know what they are asking.

Where I hesitate to answer is when, for example, I call a low strike, and the batter asks, "Is that as low as you're gonna go?" or "Is that the bottom?"

That question can kinda back yourself into a corner if you answer it.  I actually give a canned and vague response: "Hard to say."

I asked a College World Series official once (2014) what he said to a batter who asked that question.  I heard the batter ask, "Is that the bottom?" and I didn't hear the ump's response.  He told me he said, "No ... I think I'd call two more balls down from there."  I asked him if he felt like that can back himself into a corner, and he shrugged and said, "Nah ... I'm confident with my zone."

SO ... I suppose I would agree with that.  The less confident you are with your zone, the less you should say.  If you're chosen to call the College WS, I'm guessing you're pretty confident with your zone.