Balk, no balk, balk

[heyoh]

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/6479266/v602927283

Thoughts on McGwire coming to pull away Andy Green?  Think it was because Green's argument was theoretically with all the umpires on the field, so none of them could really come and pull Green away like the crew chief usually does when the argument is with a different umpire?

[Replacematt]

33 minutes ago, heyoh said:

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/6479266/v602927283

Thoughts on McGwire coming to pull away Andy Green?  Think it was because Green's argument was theoretically with all the umpires on the field, so none of them could really come and pull Green away like the crew chief usually does when the argument is with a different umpire?

No, I think it was just a more experienced bench coach imparting wisdom on a relatively young manager. 

[Thunderheads]

wow ...............

[maven]

That crew is in for some unpleasant conversations.

Anyone like to try their hand at explaining the balk? That is: cite the rule F1 violated, don't just tell us "he hopped."

[noumpere]

To the OP:  Didn't the PU start to peel the manager away from the crew chief?  And, in MLB, there's much less "peeling" than there is at our levels (especially when senior umpires are involved).

 

to Maven:  I didn't go look up the rules -- but isn't there a clause about "other that a step with the pivot foot, the pitcher shall not lift either foot"  so when he did, that ended the pitch?  And, wasn't there some interp about a pitcher last year who hopped as part of his delivery (although he hopped forward)?

[stkjock]

These comments from ESPN.com

 

Quote

Hurdle said there were two different conversations: "The first time it was all about, 'You can speed up the delivery out of the windup, not the stretch,' and I said, 'Well, I get that, because there's plenty of guys in the last couple of years that've done that, quick pitch.' And then I said, 'But there's disengagement from the rubber. Hate to say it, but it was clearly evident on the big screen. And I went back and said, 'That's a balk,' and I just got back and said,' Nah, that's not good enough, maybe you guys didn't get the look you needed.' I guess they rounded up again and saw the disengagement from the rubber. It was very clear on the replay."

Gorman said Rea was allowed to speed up his motion "but he can't disengage the rubber. He kind of hopped, and that little hop was determined to be, that's the balk part of the motion. ... At first, we just thought he sped up his motion. So we didn't talk about the hop. So that's when we said it wasn't a balk. Then Clint came out a second time and he said, Wait a minute, he disengaged the rubber.' So we had to huddle again because we didn't discuss that the first time. During the second huddle, we said since he disengaged the rubber before he released the ball, then we have to go with a balk there. That's when Andy got a little heated."

Gorman said managers "can't argue a step balk call, like a step to first, but you can argue all the other kinds of balks."

 

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, stkjock said:

These comments from ESPN.com

 

 

Gorman needs to read the MLB guidance on the crowhop. And he needs to read his current MLBUM. You can not argue balks but you can get an explanation of any balk including a step balk.

[zoops]

Gotta be a balk.

[Jimurray]

2 hours ago, noumpere said:

To the OP:  Didn't the PU start to peel the manager away from the crew chief?  And, in MLB, there's much less "peeling" than there is at our levels (especially when senior umpires are involved).

 

to Maven:  I didn't go look up the rules -- but isn't there a clause about "other that a step with the pivot foot, the pitcher shall not lift either foot"  so when he did, that ended the pitch?  And, wasn't there some interp about a pitcher last year who hopped as part of his delivery (although he hopped forward)?

Most pitchers lift the pivot foot in their windup delivery. And they break contact later during the delivery. NCAA has given guidance on the crowhop and I think MLB has also. I don't think this was a crowhop. And if it was for not pitching without alteration...etc. I look foward to a gaggle of balks. Or maybe MLB has told the umps not to let pitchers vary their delivery as Strop and some others has.

[ALStripes17]

Gorman needs to read the MLB guidance on the crowhop. And he needs to read his current MLBUM. You can not argue balks but you can get an explanation of any balk including a step balk.

Could be an issue if you have someone on the Playing Rules Committee unable to explain that situation effectively

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[ALStripes17]

To the OP:  Didn't the PU start to peel the manager away from the crew chief?  And, in MLB, there's much less "peeling" than there is at our levels (especially when senior umpires are involved).

 

to Maven:  I didn't go look up the rules -- but isn't there a clause about "other that a step with the pivot foot, the pitcher shall not lift either foot"  so when he did, that ended the pitch?  And, wasn't there some interp about a pitcher last year who hopped as part of his delivery (although he hopped forward)?

5.07a1 (Windup position)

He shall not raise either foot from the

ground, except that in his actual delivery of the ball to the bat-

ter, he may take one step backward, and one step forward with

his free foot.

By technicality, we can't even let the pitcher pick up his pivot foot at all? Am I reading this right? Looks like every windup in the country has the pivot foot only 'turning' into position

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[noumpere]

So then add the "intent to balk" clause or whatever it is.

[Jimurray]

I think all codes allow the pitcher to change the speed of his delivery, including speeding it up with R3 breaking. But would the OP comply with this NCAA ruling:

"d.    Making an illegal pitch, such as a quick pitch;
A.R. If a runner on third base breaks for home plate, the pitcher may speed up the
delivery but must continue to use a normal pitching sequence and arm action."

[Lindsay]

On its own, speeding up is okay (ask nearly every pitcher who varies his speed). Lateral crow hopping is okay (ask Carter Capps). But when the pitcher alters his delivery on the whole—when he alters or deviates from his natural motion—it becomes illegal.

Have to say I'm slightly disappointed that after McGwire bent down to get the helmet, he didn't scoop up Green and lug him over his shoulder.

[Welpe]

On 4/20/2016 at 3:29 PM, Gil: Owner - UEFL said:

But when the pitcher alters his delivery on the whole—when he alters or deviates from his natural motion—it becomes illegal.

I'm not trying to take this quote out of context but does that include altering his motion while still adhering to all of the other pitching restrictions?