Would you give it to him?

[Out&UglyToo]

I had a banger at first base. F1 fielded a bunt and threw to first just barely ahead of the runner. F3 allowed the ball to roll off the butt of his mitt and into his throwing hand - maybe a slick move ( though I did not think of that at the time). About that time B-R touches the bag. I ruled safe, and indicated that he juggled the ball. The coach argued that it was his transfer.

I thought about this, if it had happened on a double play at second or third, I may have ruled the runner out. I have even turned a double play by taking the ball on the outside of my glove and cocked and thrown to 1B immediately thereafter. Thoughts?

[Out&UglyToo]

That was my initial reaction - that F3 indeed bobbled the ball while the B-R touched the bag. The ball appeared to roll through the lower part of the palm / heel of the mitt and flew 8 inches to his throwing hand, which held it securely as he was ready to throw it. R3 remained at third. No further play, no throw. My initial read was "did not hold it securely", but it could have been a very skilled player making a fancy, quick transfer. These are 7-, 8-, and 9-yrear-old players, but some are quite skilled sometimes.

Had F3 held it in his mitt longer, no question, B-R would have been called out.

[ALStripes17]

I had a banger at first base. F1 fielded a bunt and threw to first just barely ahead of the runner. F3 allowed the ball to roll off the butt of his mitt and into his throwing hand - maybe a slick move ( though I did not think of that at the time). About that time B-R touches the bag. I ruled safe, and indicated that he juggled the ball. The coach argued that it was his transfer.

I thought about this, if it had happened on a double play at second or third, I may have ruled the runner out. I have even turned a double play by taking the ball on the outside of my glove and cocked and thrown to 1B immediately thereafter. Thoughts?

Did the fielder have secure possession while in contact with the bag before the runner touched the bag? It's a judgement.

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[Aging_Arbiter]

You made your call based on your judgment. 

Coach: but that was his transfer.......blah blah blah...

You: Coach, IN MY JUDGMENT .......................... usually provides and end to it for you. Even if you did have horrible judgment, by rule, he can't question it.

[ElkOil]

1 hour ago, Out&UglyToo said:

That was my initial reaction - that F3 indeed bobbled the ball while the B-R touched the bag. The ball appeared to roll through the lower part of the palm / heel of the mitt and flew 8 inches to his throwing hand, which held it securely as he was ready to throw it. R3 remained at third. No further play, no throw. My initial read was "did not hold it securely", but it could have been a very skilled player making a fancy, quick transfer. These are 7-, 8-, and 9-yrear-old players, but some are quite skilled sometimes.

Had F3 held it in his mitt longer, no question, B-R would have been called out.

I think you're overthinking this one. You're there to judge the play, not the quality of the players' skills.

[Rich Ives]

2 minutes ago, ElkOil said:

I think you're overthinking this one. You're there to judge the play, not the quality of the players' skills.

But that IS a factor.

[maven]

2 hours ago, Out&UglyToo said:

About that time B-R touches the bag. I ruled safe, and indicated that he juggled the ball. The coach argued that it was his transfer.

"Coach, I had a bobble, not a transfer."

Done. He's allowed to think you're wrong, but many coaches will turn to the kid and tell him to just catch the ball.

[Aging_Arbiter]

1 minute ago, Rich Ives said:

But that IS a factor.

@Rich Ives I usually agree with most of your posts.  But, for 7-8-9 year olds?   Sorry, not much of a factor in my book.  Player "skill" at that level seems to be more luck, than skill.  Hey, maybe you have superstars in your area.  In this HTBT situation, I'm going with O&U too

[Tksjewelry]

For 7,8,9 year Olds!? Thats secure enough for me, GET THE OUT.

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[Out&UglyToo]

Thank you all - great, useful answers.

 

At times, the 7-, 8-, and 9- year olds' skills DO surprise us, just not all that often. I like Tksjewelry's idea - get the out. Haha.

 

Am I overthinking this - maybe. Looking back, there IS a question - how secure IS possession? An immediate throw to third would probably have changed my call. I'd have given it to him. It seemed a bit more of a question after I thought about it. The look on F3's face did not show me enough to tip the scale either way. A surprised look would have indicated it was a bobble, a confident look would have indicated a quick transfer. I got neither from him.

[Umpirechick1]

 Maybe you need to slow down your timing, maybe you're over thinking it. In the end, it's your judgment.  But I'm never looking at a player's face or reaction in order to make my call.