NCAA You Make the Call #2

[johnnyg08]

This is a unique play.  In my mind, this is the first play by an infielder, not a tag attempt.  

[Richvee]

I'd say no attempt at R1. F4 never attempts a tag, nor does he even try to step on the base.

Disclaimer... That's after watching the whole video, and all the angles and slow motion replays. Real time, I might have interpreted F4 moving towards 2nd base as an attempt to reach the bag ahead of R1.

[KenBAZ]

Any problem with R2 popping up into F4 trying to make a play on the BR? Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

[maven]

Any problem with R2 popping up into F4 trying to make a play on the BR?

FED: yes.

NCAA: no.

[Thunderheads]

Any problem with R2 popping up into F4 trying to make a play on the BR? Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

No ..... in FED either ......

[JaxRolo]

Any problem with R2 popping up into F4 trying to make a play on the BR? Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

Not in NCAA

[JaxRolo]

No ..... in FED either ......

In FED it is not allowed.

[Thunderheads]

In FED it is not allowed.

disagree.  no play was being made there .......that's nothing

[JaxRolo]

disagree.  no play was being made there .......that's nothing

It's a judgement call whether or not a play was being made there.

[Thunderheads]

It's a judgement call whether or not a play was being made there.

that's true ......and I think you're picking up a dirty stick if you do ........just my .02

[maven]

disagree.  no play was being made there .......that's nothing

Jeff, the FPSR does not require a play being made there, just a play being made. If F4 fields the ball away from the base, so the popup slide creates no contact or illegal alteration of the fielder's actions, then we'd have nothing.

In the video, under FED an umpire could reasonably rule that this popup slide hindered F4 in making his play on the BR. That illegal slide altering the fielder's actions would still constitute an FPSR violation. If that's the ruling, then R1 is out for his illegal slide, even though R1 had safely acquired 2B (had less than 2 been out, the BR would also be out by rule). 8-4-2b

[Thunderheads]

Jeff, the FPSR does not require a play being made there, just a play being made. If F4 fields the ball away from the base, so the popup slide creates no contact or illegal alteration of the fielder's actions, then we'd have nothing.

In the video, under FED an umpire could reasonably rule that this popup slide hindered F4 in making his play on the BR. That illegal slide altering the fielder's actions would still constitute an FPSR violation. If that's the ruling, then R1 is out for his illegal slide, even though R1 had safely acquired 2B (had less than 2 been out, the BR would also be out by rule). 8-4-2b

Thanks maven, as always .........

that's fine and understood .......... but .......... not getting that there (for me)

Edited December 16, 2015 by Thunderheads

[maineump]

IMO - With 2 outs R1's pop-up could also be interpreted as he could have thought the only play was on him. This happens all the time on 3rd out.

I have nothing in NCAA, as he slid straight in - the pop-up is allowed.

In FED, I probably would not call it, as there is not an expected 'double play' on this. I put the fault to F4 as he never attempted a play on R1. I think it would have been close if he would have tagged the base. I am sure I would be discussing my call with DC.

[johnnyg08]

It's a judgement call whether or not a play was being made there.

It's judgment, but if you score that run, that would be extremely poor judgment and poor rule application. 

[johnnyg08]

IMO - With 2 outs R1's pop-up could also be interpreted as he could have thought the only play was on him. This happens all the time on 3rd out.

I have nothing in NCAA, as he slid straight in - the pop-up is allowed.

In FED, I probably would not call it, as there is not an expected 'double play' on this. I put the fault to F4 as he never attempted a play on R1. I think it would have been close if he would have tagged the base. I am sure I would be discussing my call with DC.

In FED pop up isn't allowed.  The play stops there.  Plain and simple.

[grayhawk]

It's an interesting play for sure.  If this kind of contact was made between bases, we would have interference 100% of the time.  Of course, the runner was already on the base when contact was made, so for Fed I definitely have an illegal pop-up slide where he has made contact and altered the play.  As others have said, legal in NCAA.

As far as whether or not F4's throw was the first or second play, I would judge it as the first play because his momentum carried him directly towards the bag and he made no other indication that he was making a play on R1.  So my final answers are:

NCAA:  No infraction.  Award 2 bases from TOP, so R1 goes to third and the BR goes to second.
FED:  Illegal pop-up slide.  R1 out for interference.  There were 2 outs, so no need to declare the BR out.

[Jimurray]

In FED pop up isn't allowed.  The play stops there.  Plain and simple.

Pop-ups are allowed in FED. They are not allowed into the fielder. I think in the OP I would judge that the runner did pop-up into the fielder.

[Thunderheads]

In FED pop up isn't allowed.  The play stops there.  Plain and simple.

I disagree.  I don't think this is a "plain and simple" sitch ...but that's my .02, ...not saying I'm right ......

Edited December 16, 2015 by Thunderheads

[Thunderheads]

It's judgment, but if you score that run, that would be extremely poor judgment.

first play wouldn't score the run ....wouldn't that be time of pitch, ...R1 to 3rd?

[johnnyg08]

first play wouldn't score the run ....wouldn't that be time of pitch, ...R1 to 3rd?

R1 to third base. 

[johnnyg08]

This is in the NCAA section, but 

Pop-ups are allowed in FED. They are not allowed into the fielder. I think in the OP I would judge that the runner did pop-up into the fielder.

Of course a pop-up is legal under some scenarios.  The context of this thread deals with a pop-up slide into a fielder.  Hopefully we can make some inferences based on the topic at hand to help us move forward.  This is text-book FPSR under the Fed rules. But going forward, let's move the FED discussion to the FED section.  Let's try to keep this focused on NCAA.  If somebody starts a FED thread on this play, please include the link so those who are interested in talking FED can move forward.

Edited December 16, 2015 by johnnyg08

[JaxRolo]

Thanks maven, as always .........

that's fine and understood .......... but .......... not getting that there (for me)

You afraid?

[johnnyg08]

Here's the NCAA rule that this sitch applies:

 

 

[maineump]

In FED pop up isn't allowed.  The play stops there.  Plain and simple.

Is it truly a force play if 2B doesn't make an attempt? Pop up slides are allowed, except in the force situation.

It is the FPSR - what is the difference of a runner sliding into 2B on a double?

Maybe I am just splitting hairs here.

[johnnyg08]

Is it truly a force play if 2B doesn't make an attempt? Pop up slides are allowed, except in the force situation.

It is the FPSR - what is the difference of a runner sliding into 2B on a double?

Maybe I am just splitting hairs here.

Nope, you're not splitting hairs.  We are moving the FED discussion, but just to keep it simple, @Jimurray correctly stated that the pop-up violation applies when it is a pop-up slide into the fielder.  (FED only)