whadda ya got

[BRUMP]

 

[Thunderheads]

legal slide ........ F2 lowered HIS shoulder ..........

as for the rest ...... who knows

[maven]

I can't see what F2 is doing from this angle, but it sure looks like we might have MC on him. R1 approaches HP cleanly and decides not to slide, and it appears F2 tries to tackle him or something. That's no ordinary tag: he lowers his shoulder and moves into R1. Since he has the ball, that's not OBS, and I see nothing from this angle that makes me think R1 interfered or initiated MC himself.

And of course MC on the BR (#12) at the end.

I'd interpret the coaches running in as assistance in preventing a fight, until they did something else.

Players leaving the dugout or their position are ejected (3-3-1p), which looks like most everyone.

Umpires did well to prevent escalation.

[noumpere]

A suspended game and a video to the state.

 

MC by F2.  EJ of the first white and first gray players in.  Suspension of the first gray player in.

[Dean]

I am going with "train wreck" to me F2 may have lowered his shoulder, but may have just looked that way as he turned into the runner for the tag.  As for the rest - everyone is ejected and game over, let the state decide consequences
.

on second look F2 followed through with his arm after he lowered the his shoulder.  He should have been ejected immediately as with the 3rd baseman maybe as well (leaving his position to fight)  - had these two been "got" the escalation may not have happened.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Dean

[Thunderheads]

I can't see what F2 is doing from this angle, but it sure looks like we might have MC on him. R1 approaches HP cleanly and decides not to slide, and it appears F2 tries to tackle him or something. That's no ordinary tag: he lowers his shoulder and moves into R1. Since he has the ball, that's not OBS, and I see nothing from this angle that makes me think R1 interfered or initiated MC himself.

And of course MC on the BR (#12) at the end.

I'd interpret the coaches running in as assistance in preventing a fight, until they did something else.

Players leaving the dugout or their position are ejected (3-3-1p), which looks like most everyone.

Umpires did well to prevent escalation.

​he most certainly slides .......

[UmpJeff]

F2 dropping his shoulder into the sliding runner clearly started this $#!+storm.  I do know that once the melee ensues, I'm stepping back, watching, and taking down numbers.  

[grayhawk]

F2 ejected for MC - no question to me that he was headhunting.  BR ejected for MC.  #19 and #20 for home team are both ejected for leaving their positions.  Do your best to sort out if this game will be allowed to continue.

[grayhawk]

​he most certainly slides .......

​I agree.  It was a late slide, but it was a slide.  That's why he was so vulnerable to F2's forearm shiver.

[ZebraStripes]

Tossing F2 for throwing the shoulder (MC), tossing F5 and F1?.  Probably tossing BR because of the shoulder when trying to squirt through since obstruction does not allow MC.  A whole host of others getting tossed for leaving the bench.

[basejester]

Probably tossing BR because of the shoulder when trying to squirt through since obstruction does not allow MC. 

​I don't follow what you're saying here.  We can't have obstruction on the play.

[StrikeToWin]

Looked to me as though the HP umpire had already called time so the BR coming around the way he did was definitely MC.  Maybe I didn't see something right though.

[ZebraStripes]

#19 was where I would have had a case of obstruction when #12 runs into him

[StrikeToWin]

Wouldn't OBS be nullified with the PU calling time?

[Specks]

‌@maven is right. The only thing I would do differently is if my initial "that's enough" or "stop" didn't work I would step out to the side and take numbers. It seems it would be easier to take the numbers of those that didn't leave their position and are still on the bench that get to stay (if any are). At that point if they don't have enough players from both sides to continue, let the state/AD's etc figure it out.

[ZebraStripes]

Looked to me as though the HP umpire had already called time so the BR coming around the way he did was definitely MC.  Maybe I didn't see something right though.

​I didn't even notice that he called time....though play may not have been stopped (did the BR ever slow down?)

[StrikeToWin]

​I didn't even notice that he called time....though play may not have been stopped (did the BR ever slow down?)

​Would it have mattered if BR hadn't slowed down?  I'm asking because I don't know.  Since the PU called time, wouldn't it have trumped everything.  I felt like the PU called time because he had a player laying on the ground and players rushing in so trying to gain control quickly before it escalated.  

[ricka56]

How would one expect F2 to protect himself in a collision like this (and make sure the runner doesn't duck the tag attempt). He didn't lead with the elbow, he led with the shoulder (for self-preservation and ball possession protection). The runner had a clear path until F2 moved into it and then attempted to slide/avoid contact. I have nothing but a train-wreck until the pushing/shoving occurred.  White #12 and Gray F3 (I think) ejected for the pushing/shoving. No one else joined in any physical contact that I could see.

The umpires did a great job preventing an escalation.

[basejester]

#19 was where I would have had a case of obstruction when #12 runs into him

​OK, got it.  On my first viewing, I thought the BR's actions were purely malicious.  There's at least a pretext of running the bases, even though time was called.

 

[ZebraStripes]

slowed down the contact on both ends and never once watched the umpire call time....until y'all mentioned it and I went back and watched it.

[basejester]

How would one expect F2 to protect himself in a collision like this (and make sure the runner doesn't duck the tag attempt). He didn't lead with the elbow, he led with the shoulder (for self-preservation and ball possession protection).

​He could put on a low tag with both hands, or swipe.  Leading with the shoulder didn't lead to ball preservation.  He doesn't have to prepare to hold the ball through a crash initiated by the runner.

[RingEmUp]

I think the HP ump needed to be more vocal.  I saw him raise his hands once indicating time but never heard it.  The team in white has pretty much been EJ just for leaving the dugout.  At the very least I have F2, F1, and F3 getting tossed and the BR for the gray side is tossed though I applaud his effort for not stopping (blame the umps for this).  Can't tell how many kids from the gray team left the dugout, not many it looks like.  I'm also tossing the white side HC, especially if we do not EJ the entire team and choose to continue play (bad idea IMO).  Gray team wins by forfeit. 

R1 looks like he decided to slide late because F2 didn't have the ball until late.  F2 initiates the contact and leads with his shoulder.  It could have been worse since it was shoulder to shoulder but easily could have been shoulder to head.  I

[ElkOil]

F2 and 17 are EJ'd... as well as everyone else who left their positions and/or bench during the fight.  Except the coaches who were trying to break it up.  Stand back, take out your pen and paper and start writing down numbers.

[ricka56]

​He could put on a low tag with both hands, or swipe. And left his head open/unprotected Leading with the shoulder didn't lead to ball preservation. No, the ball got loose, but he did remain conscious.  He doesn't have to prepare to hold the ball through a crash initiated by the runner. This crash wasn't initiated by the runner. In fact, the runner tried to get down/avoid, but sometimes $#!+ happens.

​Anything other than giving the runner HP was going to be a bad option (collision). F2 choose the option that minimized injury to himself. MC is called when a player tries to injure another. This F2 was trying to avoid injury.

[basejester]

​Anything other than giving the runner HP was going to be a bad option (collision). F2 choose the option that minimized injury to himself. MC is called when a player tries to injure another. This F2 was trying to avoid injury.

I'm not seeing that.  I'm not sure this tackle would be legal in the NFL. 

RULE 12, SECTION 2, ARTICLE 7

Article 7: Players in a Defenseless Posture
 
It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture.
(a)   Players in a defenseless posture are:

  (1)   A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass;
  (2)  A receiver attempting to catch a pass; or who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or
has  not  clearly  become  a  runner.  If  the  receiver/runner  is  capable  of  avoiding  or  warding  off  the  impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player;  
  (3)   A runner already in the grasp of a tackler and whose forward progress has been stopped;
  (4)   A kickoff or punt returner attempting to field a kick in the air;
  (5)   A player on the ground;
  (6)  A  kicker/punter  during  the  kick  or  during  the  return  (Also  see  Article  6(g)  for  additional  restrictions  against  a kicker/punter);
  (7)   A quarterback at any time after a change of possession (Also see Article 8(f) for additional restrictions against a quarterback after a change of possession);
  (8)   A player who receives a ―blindside‖ block when the offensive blocker is moving toward or parallel to his own end
line and approaches the opponent from behind or from the side, and
  (9)   A player who is protected from an illegal crackback block (see Article 2);
  (10) The offensive player who attempts a snap during a Field Goal attempt or a Try Kick.  
(b)   Prohibited contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture is:
  (1)  Forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, even if the initial contact of the defender’s helmet or facemask is lower than the passer’s neck, and regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless player by encircling or grasping him;
or
  (2)   Lowering the head and making forcible contact with the top/crown or forehead/‖hairline‖ parts of the helmet against any part of the defenseless player’s body; or
  (3)    Illegally  launching  into  a  defenseless  opponent.  It  is  an  illegal  launch  if  a  player
    (i)  leaves  both  feet  prior  to contact  to  spring  forward  and  upward  into  his  opponent,  and
    (ii) uses  any  part  of  his  helmet  (including  the top/crown and forehead/‖hairline‖ parts) to initiate forcible contact against any part of his opponent’s body. Note:  This does not apply to contact against a runner, unless the runner is still considered to be a defenseless player, as defined in Article 7 above.