Foul tip? Catch?

[Thunderheads]

http://m.mlb.com/video/v35926109

[UmpJeff]

Nice call!  Truth be told, I'd rather see the crews get together and get it right on calls like this than having it go to IR.

[Thunderheads]

Nice call!  Truth be told, I'd rather see the crews get together and get it right on calls like this than having it go to IR.

is it though?

 

F2 dropped his mitt ...yes?

[UmpJeff]

He dropped it to the ground, yes.  But he held onto the ball, which wasn't trapped.  I've got a foul-tip.

[Thunderheads]

He dropped it to the ground, yes.  But he held onto the ball, which wasn't trapped.  I've got a foul-tip.

ok ... is that control?

[MadMax]

It's even debatable if the glove came completely off the hand... Which my opinion (and F2 biased experience) says it didn't. The ball never touches the dirt. Yes, Masaroko _nearly_ loses it, but you see his bare throwing hand wheedle in there and secure the glove... with the ball still in it. The glove is never on the ground on its own.

That's a catch!

[noumpere]

If the loose glove was on the ground with the ball in it, that's not a catch -- foul ball.

 

But, it looked to me like the hand was still (barely) in the glove -- making it a catch.

[Thunderheads]

If the loose glove was on the ground with the ball in it, that's not a catch -- foul ball.

 

But, it looked to me like the hand was still (barely) in the glove -- making it a catch.

that's what I'm seeing .............

 

I wasn't convinced ......

 

my .02 ...

[Thunderheads]

I'm thinking I've got 4 fingers and a thumb here .........

 

 

[noumpere]

You see something that they didn't.  Not the first time; won't be the last. 

 

As long as we all understand the basis for the various rulings and the rulings are consistent with what we see / judge....

[Richvee]

The fact that he lifts the glove up off the ground, with his bare hand holding the baseball, and his bare hand not helping lift the glove would lead me to believe the glove didn't fall completely off. 

[Thunderheads]

they didn't review it guys ....so how do they really know??

 

And, I'm not saying they necessarily got it wrong .... but it looks a lot like his hand came out, and if so.... that's not control....

 

Just wanted to spark some conversation on a play you don't see too often ... a foul tip ,yes,....but not like this one ......

[afaber12]

Is there an interpretation somewhere that covers this? By that I mean a situation where the ball in flight enters a fielder's glove, the glove becomes detached from the fielder and while detached makes contact with the ground in such a way that the ball itself does not touch the ground. I'm not certain whether that actually happened here: I could be convinced that the some part of a finger stayed in the glove, and I could also be convinced the glove was completely detached while on the ground. Maybe I missed it, but there doesn't seem to be a reference to a ball in the glove on the ground being the same as the ball itself being on the ground.

 

As much as for a tag the ball itself doesn't have to touch the runner, only the glove or hand holding it does, when making a catch - under normal, non gloves-flying-everywhere circumstances - as long as the ball doesn't touch the ground the hand or glove holding it can be as completely on the ground as is physically possible and still be a catch. 

[noumpere]

From J/R:

 

6– A line drive at the pitcher is gloved airborne, but the glove/ball combination is

ripped off the pitcher's hand and drops to the ground, the ball still in the glove: no

catch. A glove not attached to the hand of the fielder is equivalent to the ground.

[MadMax]

Great! Very important to keep in the mind for future games and instances...

 

But in this case, there are two things:

 

1) If you watch it from the front view, Mesoraco's fingers never fully leave the glove. His thumb is out, but not the fingers completely.

 

2) This is not a video-reviewable call. If the 4-man crew of umpires got together to discuss what they saw, and rule it, based on what they saw (and remembered) in real-time, as a catch, then it's a catch.

 

That's a catch! Next batter!