Appeal Play

[JaxRolo]

OBR no outs, R1.

Hit and run. R1 takes off on deep fly ball. R1 is half way to third. Fly ball is caught. R1 turns to go back. Outfielder throw the ball to F4 at 2nd. Throw beats R1 back to second.

No tag was made on the runner who now tags 2nd and heads for 1st.

No throw is made to 1st and R1 makes it back. F4 said he appealed runner at second.

What's the call?

[blue23ll]

First, is the R1 actually on first at TOP? Or is this one one of those FED sitch things?

[Richvee]

Without looking anything up, I'd say safe. You have to appeal the base he left early. The base he occupied TOP. If I were on a field today and had to rule on this that would be my call. Now let's see if anyone can prove me wrong so I don't kick this call in a real game 

[blue23ll]

Rich, that was my first thought, the appeal is to the base the runner left early from, in this sitch, 1st, not second, so safe. 

[Richvee]

A quick look at 7.08(d) Says ..fails to retouch HIS base... before he or HIS base is tagged.....I would interpret HIS BASE as base he occupies TOP. In the OP, 2nd is not his base. 

[JaxRolo]

A quick look at 7.08(d) Says ..fails to retouch HIS base... before he or HIS base is tagged.....I would interpret HIS BASE as base he occupies TOP. In the OP, 2nd is not his base.

But he achieved 2nd his last time by. So isn't his?

[blue23ll]

Isn't his what? He still never legally retouched 1st. 

[JaxRolo]

Isn't his what? He still never legally retouched 1st.

he made it back to 1st without getting tagged.

[blue23ll]

He is safe, chi chi!

[Richvee]

 

A quick look at 7.08(d) Says ..fails to retouch HIS base... before he or HIS base is tagged.....I would interpret HIS BASE as base he occupies TOP. In the OP, 2nd is not his base.

But he achieved 2nd his last time by. So isn't his?

 

He hasn't legally achieved 2nd. It's not "his" unless he stays there, a pitch is made and he is never appealed for leaving 1st early. 

[JaxRolo]

A quick look at 7.08(d) Says ..fails to retouch HIS base... before he or HIS base is tagged.....I would interpret HIS BASE as base he occupies TOP. In the OP, 2nd is not his base.

But he achieved 2nd his last time by. So isn't his?

He hasn't legally achieved 2nd. It's not "his" unless he stays there, a pitch is made and he is never appealed for leaving 1st early.

I agree. Just asking.

[ricka56]

So, what if R1 missed retouching 2B on the way back to 1B. When does the opportunity to appeal a missed retouch of 2B begin?  Does the defense have to wait until R1 is back on 1B to appeal the mistouch of 2B?

 

R1 misses the 2B retouch, gets one step away from 1B, then goes back to retouch 2B before returning back to retouch 1B. When (if ever) did the opportunity to appeal a missed 2B retouch 2B begin?

[maven]

@Jax:

7.10(a): Any runner is out on appeal when, after a fly ball, "he fails to retouch his original base before he or his original base is tagged." So tagging 2B is not a proper appeal. "That's nothing!"

 

@Rick:

The opportunity to appeal a missed base begins as soon as it is missed. But you have two scenarios:

(1) if the runner is in the vicinity of the missed base and trying to return, it's treated as a runner off base play. And in that case the defense must tag the runner rather than initiate an appeal by tagging the base and stating that it's an appeal.

(2) if the runner is not trying to return to the base or is not near it, the defense can appeal the missed base in the usual way.

[Jimurray]

OBR no outs, R1.Hit and run. R1 takes off on deep fly ball. R1 is half way to third. Fly ball is caught. R1 turns to go back. Outfielder throw the ball to F4 at 2nd. Throw beats R1 back to second. No tag was made on the runner who now tags 2nd and heads for 1st.No throw is made to 1st and R1 makes it back. F4 said he appealed runner at second.What's the call?

What did F4 actually say? It might make a difference in ruling on the appeal or not even ruling but asking a question.

[Rich Ives]

 

OBR no outs, R1.Hit and run. R1 takes off on deep fly ball. R1 is half way to third. Fly ball is caught. R1 turns to go back. Outfielder throw the ball to F4 at 2nd. Throw beats R1 back to second. No tag was made on the runner who now tags 2nd and heads for 1st.No throw is made to 1st and R1 makes it back. F4 said he appealed runner at second.What's the call?

What did F4 actually say? It might make a difference in ruling on the appeal or not even ruling but asking a question.

 

 

Doesn't matter. He'd have to tag the runner and he didn't.

[Jimurray]

OBR no outs, R1.Hit and run. R1 takes off on deep fly ball. R1 is half way to third. Fly ball is caught. R1 turns to go back. Outfielder throw the ball to F4 at 2nd. Throw beats R1 back to second. No tag was made on the runner who now tags 2nd and heads for 1st.No throw is made to 1st and R1 makes it back. F4 said he appealed runner at second.What's the call?

What did F4 actually say? It might make a difference in ruling on the appeal or not even ruling but asking a question.

 

Doesn't matter. He'd have to tag the runner and he didn't.

Whether you make a ruling or not depends on what F4 actually said he was appealing I think. Sometimes we rule, sometimes we don't, sometimes we ask what they are appealing depending on the level.

[Rich Ives]

 

 

 

OBR no outs, R1.Hit and run. R1 takes off on deep fly ball. R1 is half way to third. Fly ball is caught. R1 turns to go back. Outfielder throw the ball to F4 at 2nd. Throw beats R1 back to second. No tag was made on the runner who now tags 2nd and heads for 1st.No throw is made to 1st and R1 makes it back. F4 said he appealed runner at second.What's the call?

What did F4 actually say? It might make a difference in ruling on the appeal or not even ruling but asking a question.  

Doesn't matter. He'd have to tag the runner and he didn't.

Whether you make a ruling or not depends on what F4 actually said he was appealing I think. Sometimes we rule, sometimes we don't, sometimes we ask what they are appealing depending on the level.

 

 

Why?  There's nothing to rule on.  What could he say that would make you think to say anything other than "there's nothing to appeal here". Can't rule on nothing.

[Replacematt]

If you can't tell it's an appeal, then the defense didn't make an act that was unmistakably an appeal (barring inattentiveness on your part, which doesn't seem to be the case.) You have to know it's an appeal for it to be an appeal. That can't be done retroactively. If he says he said he was appealing, he should have been louder.

[pnewton]

An appeal is an allegation of illegal action by the offense.  In OP there is no mention of illegal action at second base, so that appeal is denied.

[ricka56]

 

 

 

 

OBR no outs, R1.Hit and run. R1 takes off on deep fly ball. R1 is half way to third. Fly ball is caught. R1 turns to go back. Outfielder throw the ball to F4 at 2nd. Throw beats R1 back to second. No tag was made on the runner who now tags 2nd and heads for 1st.No throw is made to 1st and R1 makes it back. F4 said he appealed runner at second.What's the call?

What did F4 actually say? It might make a difference in ruling on the appeal or not even ruling but asking a question.  

Doesn't matter. He'd have to tag the runner and he didn't.

Whether you make a ruling or not depends on what F4 actually said he was appealing I think. Sometimes we rule, sometimes we don't, sometimes we ask what they are appealing depending on the level.

 

Why?  There's nothing to rule on.  What could he say that would make you think to say anything other than "there's nothing to appeal here". Can't rule on nothing.

 

The umpire denying the appeal at 2B in a timely manner could give the defense time enough to appeal at 1B. But F4 would probably have to verbally state the appeal because the umpire probably wouldn't know know what he was doing.  

[DVA7130]

Safe.

If he reaches third then he can not retag first.

Since he is between second and third he can go back to his TOP base to tag.

If he doesn't touch second going back, he eligible out on appeal there as well.

[Replacematt]

Safe.

If he reaches third then he can not retag first.

Yes, he can. Why couldn't he?

[DVA7130]

7.10(B)

With the ball in play, while advancing or returning to a base, he fails to touch each
base in order before he, or a missed base, is tagged.
APPROVED RULING: (1) No runner may return to touch a missed base after a
following runner has scored. (2) When the ball is dead, no runner may return to
touch a missed base or one he has left after he has advanced to and touched a base
beyond the missed base.
Rule 7.10(b) Comment: PLAY. (a) Batter hits ball out of park or ground rule double and
misses first base (ball is dead)—he may return to first base to correct his mistake before he touches
second but if he touches second he may not return to first and if defensive team appeals he is declared
out at first.

[Replacematt]

7.10(B)

With the ball in play, while advancing or returning to a base, he fails to touch each

base in order before he, or a missed base, is tagged.

APPROVED RULING: (1) No runner may return to touch a missed base after a

following runner has scored. (2) When the ball is dead, no runner may return to

touch a missed base or one he has left after he has advanced to and touched a base

beyond the missed base.

Rule 7.10(b) Comment: PLAY. (a) Batter hits ball out of park or ground rule double and

misses first base (ball is dead)—he may return to first base to correct his mistake before he touches

second but if he touches second he may not return to first and if defensive team appeals he is declared

out at first.

...and what part of that ruling is not relevant to the OP?

[Richvee]

 

7.10(B)

With the ball in play, while advancing or returning to a base, he fails to touch each

base in order before he, or a missed base, is tagged.

APPROVED RULING: (1) No runner may return to touch a missed base after a

following runner has scored. (2) When the ball is dead, no runner may return to

touch a missed base or one he has left after he has advanced to and touched a base

beyond the missed base.

Rule 7.10(b) Comment: PLAY. (a) Batter hits ball out of park or ground rule double and

misses first base (ball is dead)—he may return to first base to correct his mistake before he touches

second but if he touches second he may not return to first and if defensive team appeals he is declared

out at first.

...and what part of that ruling is not relevant to the OP?

 

All of it