Charlie Foxtrot

[James Walker]

Saw this happen at a tournement this weekend, still scratching my head.

Rule set is OBR, though I'm unsure if it is different in FED. 12u Nations tourney.

R1,R2 with 1 out. B1 hits a fly to the outfield. Ball is caught for 2nd out. R2 was running on contact and comes in to score. Defense starts to walk off field thinking there are 3 outs. R1 starts to leave first, maybe gets 3 or 4 steps off the bag (towards the third base dugout) and the third base coach starts yelling that its only 2 outs. R2, who was picking up the bat, retouched the plate and heads back to third to retouch and beats a throw to second. The guys working the game let the play stand. Next batter grounded out to end the inning so it worked out, but it could have been disastrous.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have R1 out for abandoning and R2's run scoring unless appealed since he crossed before R1 gave himself up.

What you got?

[grayhawk]

I'm not getting abandonment for 3-4 steps off the bag.

[James Walker]

So how much would I need to give? To me, he had no intention to run the bases. He asked someone to bring him his glove and was about to take his helmet off and hand it to the first base coach.

[Magic]

I am not calling Abandonment until he is in the dugout. Or he forfeits his right to play(i.e. takes off his helmet, grabbing his glove). Just because he started to do that, doesn't mean abandonment. But thats just me. 

[grayhawk]

There's no distance defined in the rulebook other than "leaves the base path," but it also says that he must be "obviously" abandoning his effort to touch the next base.

 

I just think abandonment can be tricky, so 3-4 steps would be pretty quick unless that puts him close to his dugout.

[bam]

abandonment = obscenity = I know it when I see it

[maven]

I'm not calling abandonment, at least not in this play. You want abandonment to be big, big, big, like MC.

 

Even if you call abandonment, you would still grant an appeal of R2 for an advantageous 4th out. No run. R2 may not return to 2B to retouch once he has touched HP.

[noumpere]

I'm not calling abandonment, at least not in this play. You want abandonment to be big, big, big, like MC.

 

Even if you call abandonment, you would still grant an appeal of R2 for an advantageous 4th out. No run. R2 may not return to 2B to retouch once he has touched HP.

Why not?

 

the ball isn't dead, and in OBR it's "touch the next base after the ball becomes dead"

[maven]

 

I'm not calling abandonment, at least not in this play. You want abandonment to be big, big, big, like MC.

 

Even if you call abandonment, you would still grant an appeal of R2 for an advantageous 4th out. No run. R2 may not return to 2B to retouch once he has touched HP.

Why not?

 

the ball isn't dead, and in OBR it's "touch the next base after the ball becomes dead"

 

 

Oops. Thought they called "time" in the OP.

 

Carry on!

[James Walker]

Okay, so I would've kicked the abandonment call... Glad it wasn't mine to make.

Now to the second part... We leave R2 at second because a following runner didn't touch home (7.10b) and he beat the throw back to second. Right?

And he must retouch bases in order reverse order ie plate, third then second.

[JaxRolo]

He touched the plate. Score the run.

[Thunderheads]

He touched the plate. Score the run.

the ball was caught .........

[maven]

 

He touched the plate. Score the run.

the ball was caught .........

 

 

And your point is? Jax's games are much easier to officiate: he calls 'em as he sees 'em!

[JaxRolo]

 

He touched the plate. Score the run.

the ball was caught .........

 

oops must of misread something along the way.

[noumpere]

Okay, so I would've kicked the abandonment call... Glad it wasn't mine to make.

Now to the second part... We leave R2 at second because a following runner didn't touch home (7.10b) and he beat the throw back to second. Right?

And he must retouch bases in order reverse order ie plate, third then second.

Correct on the above.

[Mike Prince]

Okay, so I would've kicked the abandonment call... Glad it wasn't mine to make.

Now to the second part... We leave R2 at second because a following runner didn't touch home (7.10b) and he beat the throw back to second. Right?

And he must retouch bases in order reverse order ie plate, third then second.

 

As you describe what happened you are correct in your interp, R1/R2 with two outs.  If R2 had not retouched and returned to 2B you would score the run per @JaxRolo's post and wait for the defense to (hopefully) appeal his leaving early (which they did by throwing to 2B).