U-E won't let me down!

[ALStripes17]

Got in conversation with my partner last night who admittedly does not read the rule book but has "garnered a lot of experience."

We were rattling on about the level of play for some 15-18 year old (Dixie - modified OBR) and the their coaches (or lack thereof) and I began to explain how I would love to be able to give the kids all the knowledge of the rules.

Explained a pitcher picking off from the windup (stepping directly toward a base) and my partner was dumbfounded and began saying he would balk it and why doesn't anyone do it if its allowed yada yada. I even explained the 3 things a pitcher can do from the windup (8.01a and c)

Then made mention that a pitcher doesn't have to jump turn to pick off to 1B, he can just step directly to first with his free foot, said he would call that illegal as well as it "deceives the runner." I asked him which rule says that "deceiving the runner is a balk" and asked when the definition of balk changed. Again, looked at me like i was crazy and said I would never make next level if I didn't call those things balks and asked where it said that was legal. I asked him where it was illegal (8.05c was my go-to)

Last scenario, had an appeal play where defense wants to appeal a missed bag at 3B. F1 requests Time, I grant it. He tells me he wants to appeal 3B. I asked him if that's why he wanted time and he said "Yes." I told him the ball needed to be put back in play. So.... he gets back on the rubber, PU says "Play" and F1 throws over to 3B with his verbal. No call from PU, says they already used their right to appeal when the ball was dead (7.10). I told him later i did not agree as a play or attempted play cannot occur while the ball is dead so their appeal is allowed. He bet me game fee on it.

U-E, please advise :)

[noumpere]

.

U-E, please advise

1) spend $7 of the game fee you win to buy your partner a rule book.

 

2) spend the rest buying drinks for your umpire friends and telling stories about this smitty you had to work with.

[JaxRolo]

 

.

U-E, please advise

1) spend $7 of the game fee you win to buy your partner a rule book. Why? he wont read it?!?!

 

2) spend the rest buying drinks for your umpire friends and telling stories about this smitty you had to work with. - Good Idea!

 

[goody14]

Explained a pitcher picking off from the windup (stepping directly toward a base) and my partner was dumbfounded and began saying he would balk it and why doesn't anyone do it if its allowed yada yada. I even explained the 3 things a pitcher can do from the windup (8.01a and c)

 

 

Does this actually ever happen?  Any video of this...I am being completely serious.  I know it is in the rules, but minus Jim Evans' Balk Video, I have never seen it "in the wild".

 

I would think it would be effective.  Imagine a 3-2 counts with 2 outs and runners on base.  Pitcher switches to the windup and pulls this move out.

[bam]

Pickoff from the windup is illegal in FED.

 

Dead ball appeal is legal in FED and can come from players or manager

 

Buy a FED book with part of that game fee, too. 

[ALStripes17]

Pickoff from the windup is illegal in FED. Dead ball appeal is legal in FED and can come from players or manager Buy a FED book with part of that game fee, too.

Whoa ... 1) I'm aware of those and 2) my partner doesn't do FED. Did you mean to come across combative? Don't know why you introduced FED discrepancy so harshly Edited: 'we' didn't introduce FED... 'you' did

[Magic]

 

Pickoff from the windup is illegal in FED.

Dead ball appeal is legal in FED and can come from players or manager

Buy a FED book with part of that game fee, too.

Whoa ... 1) I'm aware of those and 2) my partner doesn't do FED. Did you mean to come across combative? Don't know why you introduced FED discrepancy so harshly

Edited: 'we' didn't introduce FED... 'you' did

 

I was thinking in the Fed logic as well. I was like wait thats a balk and there is a dead ball appeal. Then I realized it was OBR and wasn't going to say anything.

[SoCal Lurker]

 

Explained a pitcher picking off from the windup (stepping directly toward a base) and my partner was dumbfounded and began saying he would balk it and why doesn't anyone do it if its allowed yada yada. I even explained the 3 things a pitcher can do from the windup (8.01a and c)

 

 

Does this actually ever happen?  Any video of this...I am being completely serious.  I know it is in the rules, but minus Jim Evans' Balk Video, I have never seen it "in the wild".

 

I would think it would be effective.  Imagine a 3-2 counts with 2 outs and runners on base.  Pitcher switches to the windup and pulls this move out.

 

 

 

I'm tempted to have my son work on it . . . but I lack confidence that the umps he works with would realize it was OK.  (He does do a direct step without jumping back -- which almost got an opposing coach ejected in a PONY game (and I had to argue with my son's coach about it being legal...)

[grayhawk]

 

 

Explained a pitcher picking off from the windup (stepping directly toward a base) and my partner was dumbfounded and began saying he would balk it and why doesn't anyone do it if its allowed yada yada. I even explained the 3 things a pitcher can do from the windup (8.01a and c)

 

 

Does this actually ever happen?  Any video of this...I am being completely serious.  I know it is in the rules, but minus Jim Evans' Balk Video, I have never seen it "in the wild".

 

I would think it would be effective.  Imagine a 3-2 counts with 2 outs and runners on base.  Pitcher switches to the windup and pulls this move out.

 

 

 

I'm tempted to have my son work on it . . . but I lack confidence that the umps he works with would realize it was OK.  (He does do a direct step without jumping back -- which almost got an opposing coach ejected in a PONY game (and I had to argue with my son's coach about it being legal...)

 

 

It's always a risk to do something different that "looks funny" depending on the skill level/knowledge of the umpires on that game.

[Majordave]

I'm pretty sure I have stated the long version of this before somewhere on here but, short answer is:  IF you have a pitcher who has a great pickoff move that works well and is within the rules it is advisable for the coach to "educate" the umpires on the pitcher's move, why legal?, etc.  Using rulebook terminology of course. 

 

 

Oh! Wait, this isn't a coaching forum.  Never mind.

 

Seriously, you guys who have trouble recognizing and calling balks get in the rule books and discuss with your partners.  Watch the Jim Evans Balk video.

 

Try to teach balks to a younger umpire.  Volunteering to teach balks to my high school umpiring association years back made me the "expert" in our association and got me a lot of credibility amongst my fellow members leading to invite to join the college umpiring group, board membership with the high school association and regional championship tournament games in the high school association.

 

Just sayin'................

[SoCal Lurker]

So (haven't ordered the Evans balk videeo for my son yet...), from the windup, when does the pitcher become committed to go to the plate instead of first? 

[ALStripes17]

So (haven't ordered the Evans balk videeo for my son yet...), from the windup, when does the pitcher become committed to go to the plate instead of first?

My opinion would be the first step associated with his windup motion. In order to pickoff from the windup, the step must be direct (I would also imagine a shoulder turn to the base as well) and cannot be a deliberate attempt to deceive. Pitcher's intent rules as king here.

[Jimurray]

From the MLBUM: "Although this is not frequently seen, it is legal provided the pitcher does not make any motion associated with his delivery to the batter before the pitcher throws to the base."

 

Normally that would be arm or leg motion associated with his delivery

[bam]

bam, on 13 May 2014 - 2:40 PM, said:

Pickoff from the windup is illegal in FED.

 

Dead ball appeal is legal in FED and can come from players or manager

 

Buy a FED book with part of that game fee, too. 

Didn't mean to come off as combative (I get that A LOT).

 

I was merely pointing out that in FED you're partner isn't wrong. About the balk from the windup, anyway.  I can't speak to any of the other "garnered experience". 

 

And since this topic was posted under "Rules", I wanted to make sure we all know what ruleset we're talking about. 

[PGOLDEN88]

Got in conversation with my partner last night who admittedly does not read the rule book but has "garnered a lot of experience."

We were rattling on about the level of play for some 15-18 year old (Dixie - modified OBR) and the their coaches (or lack thereof) and I began to explain how I would love to be able to give the kids all the knowledge of the rules.

Explained a pitcher picking off from the windup (stepping directly toward a base) and my partner was dumbfounded and began saying he would balk it and why doesn't anyone do it if its allowed yada yada. I even explained the 3 things a pitcher can do from the windup (8.01a and c)

Then made mention that a pitcher doesn't have to jump turn to pick off to 1B, he can just step directly to first with his free foot, said he would call that illegal as well as it "deceives the runner." I asked him which rule says that "deceiving the runner is a balk" and asked when the definition of balk changed. Again, looked at me like i was crazy and said I would never make next level if I didn't call those things balks and asked where it said that was legal. I asked him where it was illegal (8.05c was my go-to)

Last scenario, had an appeal play where defense wants to appeal a missed bag at 3B. F1 requests Time, I grant it. He tells me he wants to appeal 3B. I asked him if that's why he wanted time and he said "Yes." I told him the ball needed to be put back in play. So.... he gets back on the rubber, PU says "Play" and F1 throws over to 3B with his verbal. No call from PU, says they already used their right to appeal when the ball was dead (7.10). I told him later i did not agree as a play or attempted play cannot occur while the ball is dead so their appeal is allowed. He bet me game fee on it.

U-E, please advise

Time for him to pay up. OBR rules, so he's dead wrong. It's like trying to beat a Royal Flush in Hold 'Em, you can't do it.

[BalkHawk]

Line two, paragraph two of op says "modified obr."

I'm counting the "combative" remark as the fifth "condescending" allegation. Ha