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Should I have sent him packing?

umpire_scott

By umpire_scott
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umpire_scott

umpire_scott

Posted
Posted

Championship game of a tournament 13U division.  Kid for Team B was throwing a lot of breaking balls that catcher was catching just below zone (about middle of shin) that I was calling strikes fairly consistently.  Between innings I conferred with my partner quickly about game situation (score and time limit as we were getting close).  As I did this I walked into Team A coach questioning my zone on the low breaking pitches to my partner.  My partner just pointed towards me and the coach stopped.  Next half inning I rung up a kid on a letter high fastball.  Team A 3rd base coach chirps from the box, "that was above his hands".  Inning ends a few outs later and as he is walking back to the dugout the following conversation occurs:

 

Coach:  Can I talk to you about something?

Me:  Sure, as long as it's not questioning balls and strikes.

Coach: (Hesitates) "Well how can your zone be from here to here" (motions middle of the shin to shoulders)

Me: "Coach I said we are not discussing balls and strikes" (said very firmly)

Coach:  Walks towards dugout then says "Well where is your zone"

Me:  "You know where my zone is, it's in the rule book".

Coach: "No, I don't. . ."

Me.  "One more word about balls and strikes and you'll be ejected from this game".

 

In retrospect I had one of two options that I think would have worked better.

 

Option #1 - Run him after the "well where is your zone" comment.

 

Option #2 - Explain to him that the breaking pitches were crossing the zone at the bottom of the knee in my judgment.  The high strike he felt was too high was at the top of my zone.  I had it right at the letters.

 

FWIW the TD does value umpires that don't have quick triggers as many of the same teams play in multiple tournaments throughout the season.  And he wants some balance between the umpires controlling coach behavior and keeping his clients happy.

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blue23ll
blue23ll

Scott, I have come to the conclusion that you enjoy the debate and interplay between you and coaches. That is your choice, but don't say that you should have run the coach when you are the one that is

scrounge
scrounge

You said you weren't going to discuss balls and strikes - and then you proceeded to discuss balls and strikes. Yes, he was baiting you by re-asking the question of where your zone was. But you bit the

BigUmpire
BigUmpire

"FWIW the TD does value umpires that don't have quick triggers" HorseSH*#! TDs value MONEY-period! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

PGOLDEN88

PGOLDEN88

Posted
Posted

Option 3: Tell him to bring the skipper out and you'll talk to him only. Unless he is the skipper (the one you talked with at the plate meeting), then I'd go with option 2. Seems like he was acting like a gentleman, no need to be a redass. Good job.

scrounge

scrounge

Posted
Posted

You said you weren't going to discuss balls and strikes - and then you proceeded to discuss balls and strikes. Yes, he was baiting you by re-asking the question of where your zone was. But you bit the hook. Just give the stop sign and a "that's enough" and if he keeps going, so be it. But you kinda kept it going on yourself.

  • Like 4
SteveJ

SteveJ

Posted
Posted

BOOM.  He's showing you up with the hands from the shins to shoulders.

What he said  ^^^^^^^^^^

Mike Prince

Mike Prince

Posted
Posted

@umpire_scott, don't try to reason with a coach.  IMO from your posts you need to develop your situation management skills.  Know what your thresholds are, talk less and let the coach lead himself into trouble, when he hits the threshold, you warn or eject him.  You set yourself up here by telling him he could talk to you but not about balls or strikes (knowing fully that's what he wanted to talk about).  Allowing him to question (or asking you to clarify) your zone is letting him argue balls and strikes, as @scrounge said he baited you and you took it.

  • Like 1
bluejerred

bluejerred

Posted
Posted

Championship game of a tournament 13U division.  Kid for Team B was throwing a lot of breaking balls that catcher was catching just below zone (about middle of shin) that I was calling strikes fairly consistently.  Between innings I conferred with my partner quickly about game situation (score and time limit as we were getting close).  As I did this I walked into Team A coach questioning my zone on the low breaking pitches to my partner.  My partner just pointed towards me and the coach stopped.  Next half inning I rung up a kid on a letter high fastball.  Team A 3rd base coach chirps from the box, "that was above his hands".  Inning ends a few outs later and as he is walking back to the dugout the following conversation occurs:

 

 

I'm assuming this all happened towards the end of the game because you stated that you were talking with your partner about game time and scores.  If your zone was consistent, which you state that you have been calling the low breakers strikes the whole game, then it is what it is. 

 

Question:  Team A 3rd base coach - AC or HC?  If AC, show no mercy, especially with the visual demonstration.  There are HC's who designate an AC to do the complaining to get in our heads.  If HC, you might tell him that's enough when he visually demonstrated with his hand signals depending on his demeanor and the mood of the game, but if he was giving you flak from the dugout/coaching boxes and then came over to show you up and/or you have already tossed the AC for balls/strikes, it's time for him to go.

BigUmpire

BigUmpire

Posted
Posted

"FWIW the TD does value umpires that don't have quick triggers"

HorseSH*#!

TDs value MONEY-period!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  • Like 3
umpire_scott

umpire_scott

Posted
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Posted

"FWIW the TD does value umpires that don't have quick triggers"

HorseSH*#!

TDs value MONEY-period!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Exactly.  The value to the umpires that don't have quick triggers is indirect in that it keeps the coaches happy, thus they continue to pay him to play in his tournaments,

Mike Prince

Mike Prince

Posted
Posted

 

"FWIW the TD does value umpires that don't have quick triggers"

HorseSH*#!

TDs value MONEY-period!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Exactly.  The value to the umpires that don't have quick triggers is indirect in that it keeps the coaches happy, thus they continue to pay him to play in his tournaments,

 

 

So where's the value to the umpires in this?  You get walked on by coaches who are smart enough to know they have the TD's by the balls.

grayhawk

grayhawk

Posted
Posted

"FWIW the TD does value umpires that don't have quick triggers"

HorseSH*#!

TDs value MONEY-period!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

They are business people first, and baseball people second (if we're lucky).  Baseball may be further down the list.  @umpire_scott I am curious to know what they pay in game fees to the umpires.

blue23ll

blue23ll

Posted
Posted

Scott, I have come to the conclusion that you enjoy the debate and interplay between you and coaches. That is your choice, but don't say that you should have run the coach when you are the one that is prolonging the discussions. The advice you are consistently given here is to talk less and EJ more when warranted. My advice in the 'ball strike' discussion is to say once, 'coach we are not discussing balls and strikes', and turn and walk away. He prolongs or follows you, he gets the hook. 

  • Like 6
BillKen

BillKen

Posted
Posted

When the coach said Where is your zone?, I think I would have just walked off and ignored him.  If he is the aggressor at that point, he dumps himself.  The less you say, the less that can be used against you.  No need to defend your zone with the book comment.

  • Like 1
Dash Riprock

Dash Riprock

Posted
Posted

Scott, I have come to the conclusion that you enjoy the debate and interplay between you and coaches. That is your choice, but don't say that you should have run the coach when you are the one that is prolonging the discussions. The advice you are consistently given here is to talk less and EJ more when warranted. My advice in the 'ball strike' discussion is to say once, 'coach we are not discussing balls and strikes', and turn and walk away. He prolongs or follows you, he gets the hook. 

Thank you for saying "should have run."  Refreshing indeed.

umpire_scott

umpire_scott

Posted
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Posted

Scott, I have come to the conclusion that you enjoy the debate and interplay between you and coaches. That is your choice, but don't say that you should have run the coach when you are the one that is prolonging the discussions. The advice you are consistently given here is to talk less and EJ more when warranted. My advice in the 'ball strike' discussion is to say once, 'coach we are not discussing balls and strikes', and turn and walk away. He prolongs or follows you, he gets the hook. 

 

Trust me it is not that I enjoy the debate.  I'm simply unsure of when to eject and don't like doing it.  

bam

bam

Posted
Posted

"Can I talk to you about something?"

"What?"

"Where is your strike zone"

"No"

Rocket science 101

  • Like 1
James Walker

James Walker

Posted
Posted

"Can I talk to you about something?"

"What?"

"Where is your strike zone"

"In the parking lot. BOOM."

Rocket science 101

FIFY :wave:

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