Gaining Distance

[zoops]

R2, pitcher feints a pickoff by doing the inside spin move.  Free foot lands on the rubber.  Does this qualify as "gaining distance" toward 2nd base?  

 

As an aside, I know it is an automatic ejection to argue a balk, how about arguing that a balk should be called?

[maven]

I'm not picking that booger. Just tell coach he's ok and move on.

[Dash Riprock]

R2, pitcher feints a pickoff by doing the inside spin move.  Free foot lands on the rubber.  Does this qualify as "gaining distance" toward 2nd base?  

Close enough for government work.

[afaber12]

Even if there's a specific rule that expressly forbids arguing a balk call - can't say I'm familiar with it beyond an application of arguing judgement calls - there's provision for managers to draw the umpire's attention to a rule that may have been either misapplied or not applied at all, which sometimes involves judgement as to whether the conditions of the rule apply to the situation. (Eg "Didn't the pitcher step to an unoccupied base?" "Yes, but in my judgement it was for the purpose of making a play on a runner.") It's a required step before a game can be played under protest: if a mistake was made by the umpires, there has to be an opportunity for the mistake to be corrected, and only if its not can the game proceed under protest.

 

Did the free foot lift off the ground and then regain contact with the ground? Then its a step. Is it closer to second base after the step than it was before the step? (I've been told the circle that just contains the foot at the starting point shouldn't cross the same circle at the landing point, ie spinning from // to on the same spot so that the distance to the closest point is now less doesn't count.) Then its gained distance. Has it gained more distance to second base than it has to any other base? Then its a step to second base, with a runner on second meaning no throw is required, and no balk. (At least for step-based reasons.)

[umpstu]

Sounds like a step to me. Doesn't seem to be stepping towards home.

[zoops]

As far as the arguing the balk, I've always heard that it's treated like balls and strikes, that it's an automatic ejection.  Just wondering if when a coach comes out to argue that a balk should have been called  if would be treated the same way.  If you tell him why it wasn't a balk and he continues to argue, should he be gone?

[tjwoelfel13]

Yes. It is a two way road. Just like a coach that argues that a ball should be a strike and one that argues that a strike should be a ball.  They both get ejected if they argue long enough.

[maven]

As far as the arguing the balk, I've always heard that it's treated like balls and strikes, that it's an automatic ejection.  Just wondering if when a coach comes out to argue that a balk should have been called  if would be treated the same way.  If you tell him why it wasn't a balk and he continues to argue, should he be gone?

 

I have 2 comments about this post:

 

1. I resist the term 'automatic ejection' for amateur baseball. Even balls and strikes, I'll tell the coach, "we're not arguing balls and strikes today," and "that's enough" before giving him the hook (less rope at higher levels, where they know better).

 

2. I think MLB (and perhaps pro ball generally) has "automatic ejections" for arguing balls and strikes and for arguing step balks (umpires calling a step balk will sometimes use the "slap leg" mechanic to signal it). That procedure does not apply to amateur baseball.

[catsbackr]

Warn first.

[noumpere]

 

 

2. I think MLB (and perhaps pro ball generally) has "automatic ejections" for arguing balls and strikes and for arguing step balks (umpires calling a step balk will sometimes use the "slap leg" mechanic to signal it). That procedure does not apply to amateur baseball.

 

I think it should -- well, at least once you've told the coach that it will apply.

[cyclonehokiece]

R2, pitcher feints a pickoff by doing the inside spin move. Free foot lands on the rubber. Does this qualify as "gaining distance" toward 2nd base?

Close enough for government work.

Government work is actually quite precise these days (at least in my job)

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[zm1283]

Arguing a "no step" balk is not allowed in MLB or NCAA (Don't know about other leagues that use OBR). They get an explanation ("No step"), but they don't get to come out and argue. 

[MrBlue2U]

Lots of good points made above.  I would encourage umpires to issue warnings around balk and ball/strike arguments prior to ejecting, even though the rulebook says they can't do it.  Your mantra should be to be approachable and keep them in the game and let them eject themselves.  The only automatic ejections should be around egregious acts like profane personal insults, attacks on your integrity, and/or showing you up. 

 

If the coach is asking a question, answer it.  If he is suggesting a balk should be called and you don't have one, briefly explain why.  Don't let conversations drag on during an inning.  Give him your explanation, and if he continues to argue (doesn't head back to the dugout or coach's box), tell him that he's not allowed to argue balks.  Try to get the game going again and if necessary (if he's being polite / professional), tell him you'll discuss it between innings.  If he keeps going, WARN him that he's not allowed to argue balks.  By now, if he keeps going, you have defensible grounds for ejection.

 

People Skills are vital to managing the situations that arise in a baseball game.  You shouldn't try to hide behind a rule that says "you can't do such and such" and drop the banhammer at the first sign of a complaint.  Work with the coaches and *manage* these situations, and you will earn their respect. 

 

As for the step, I've been taught that the rule of thumb for the "distance" portion of distance and direction is roughly 12 inches (the length of the pitcher's foot).  If his foot came down roughly 12 inches closer to second base than it was when he lifted it, then you can argue that he gained ground, even if it wasn't very much ground. 

[dumbdumb]

Lots of good points made above.  I would encourage umpires to issue warnings around balk and ball/strike arguments prior to ejecting, even though the rulebook says they can't do it.  Your mantra should be to be approachable and keep them in the game and let them eject themselves.  The only automatic ejections should be around egregious acts like profane personal insults, attacks on your integrity, and/or showing you up. 

 

If the coach is asking a question, answer it.  If he is suggesting a balk should be called and you don't have one, briefly explain why.  Don't let conversations drag on during an inning.  Give him your explanation, and if he continues to argue (doesn't head back to the dugout or coach's box), tell him that he's not allowed to argue balks.  Try to get the game going again and if necessary (if he's being polite / professional), tell him you'll discuss it between innings.  If he keeps going, WARN him that he's not allowed to argue balks.  By now, if he keeps going, you have defensible grounds for ejection.

 

People Skills are vital to managing the situations that arise in a baseball game.  You shouldn't try to hide behind a rule that says "you can't do such and such" and drop the banhammer at the first sign of a complaint.  Work with the coaches and *manage* these situations, and you will earn their respect. 

 

As for the step, I've been taught that the rule of thumb for the "distance" portion of distance and direction is roughly 12 inches (the length of the pitcher's foot).  If his foot came down roughly 12 inches closer to second base than it was when he lifted it, then you can argue that he gained ground, even if it wasn't very much ground. 

You are going to get an argument on that last paragraph. What you said is what I had heard. However, from reading it appears that if the pitcher picks his foot up and moves his foot 1 inch or 1/4 inch towards first (while the other 11 inches are still in exact same spot the foot was originally in, that counts as distance. Now, they have never said which levels call it like your explanation 12" (or get the whole foot totally out of the spot it was originally in) and which levels call it the 1 inch way. I could care less which it is, that is not the question.

The question is more, which way is it suppose to be interpreted with the rules for the different levels. Then, the greatest answer is what is the interpretation from the ding committee (and they all need to agree on the exact way it should be called) for making this call for the schools that your group works for. If you are in a 12" group and he moves 12" and you call a balk you get dinged. If you are in the 1" group and he moves 1" and you call a balk, you get dinged.

[sdix00]

Only one person has bothered to document this sufficiently, so I go with him. From the Wendelstedt manual: '> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk