Sometimes being calm makes it worse

[ALStripes17]

Varsity game last Friday night. Big county rivalry, one team was fighting for a playoff spot, other was already out (hoping to be the spoiler) Tie ball game, Top 6, 2 out, man on 3rd. Line drive hit to LF, ball hits ground just short of diving LF's glove. 'No catch' said, safe signal, point at ground. HTHC goes ballistic and sprinting out to me (surprisingly making a pit stop at the foul line until I granted 'Time') yelling "How can you make that call from here?" (Referring to my area bw 2nd and 3rd base - on the baseline). I calmly ask "Well, Coach, where would you like me to go?" "I want you to get your A$$ in the OF!!!" "Coach, I can't do that. If theres nothing else to add, it's time to go back to the dugout." He ranted and raved for a lil while longer before I went down my checklist. Warned him, restricted him, but never got to Step 3 (he looked at me with a 'How could you' look before returning to the dugout). I don't think I have ever seen a coach do so many circles around an umpire and get as red as this man did. All the while, I stood in the middle of the raindance repeating "the ball hit the ground coach." Edit to add: when word spread through my association about the entire weekend series, my name was never even mentioned. It seems my partner and the 2 guys from Saturday made more of a 'lasting impression' than the young buck from Friday's 'no catch.'

[Replacematt]

Don't ask coaches their opinion of what you should be doing. It's just more fuel, at best, and baiting, at worst.

If you're going to ask them questions, leave them open-ended and about them. "What did you see?"

[ALStripes17]

Don't ask coaches their opinion of what you should be doing. It's just more fuel, at best, and baiting, at worst.

If you're going to ask them questions, leave them open-ended and about them. "What did you see?"

Haha understood, curiosity got the best of me since I knew I was in the best spot (according to our mechanics manual).

Asking him what he saw is moot. He 'saw' the ball in the glove. No other reason he wod be coming out there given the circumstances.

[T-Rav]

Sounds like you may have given the coach too long of a rope. If you were repeating yourself or he was, its time to end it. After that if he wants to enjoy the game from the parking lot and a several week long vacation from baseball and fine that goes along with an ejection, then that's his choice and let him punch that ticket.

[Mike Prince]

I would have asked him if he had a question about the actual catch (or no catch in this situation).  If not you then have a basis to end the discussion and you tell him you were right where you were supposed to be.  Your initial response did not set the table for you to control the discussion.

[Jocko]

In instances like this, I generally tell em what I had. Once. Then I just stand there looking at them like they're retarded. Usually does the trick.

[Replacematt]

Don't ask coaches their opinion of what you should be doing. It's just more fuel, at best, and baiting, at worst.

If you're going to ask them questions, leave them open-ended and about them. "What did you see?"

Haha understood, curiosity got the best of me since I knew I was in the best spot (according to our mechanics manual).

Asking him what he saw is moot. He 'saw' the ball in the glove. No other reason he wod be coming out there given the circumstances.

You're right, it is moot...that's why it works. You give him the chance to speak, and you already know what he's going to say. It allows him what he wants (to complain) without really having any substantial impact. He'll say what he saw, you say you had something different (or something like that,) and it's much easier to get him off the field. If he still feels the need to tell you how to do your job, then you handle it. Chances are he's forgotten about that part of it.

[ALStripes17]

Discussion was more than controlled. And to further clarify those that say the rope was too long, it was a FED game (thought Varsity and county rival tags would be enough to clarify that) and the step ladder of warn then restrict was followed.

I would also refer back to a previous post regarding 'longer ropes during passionate parts of game or champ games.'

There was no unnecessary delay, other than my partner entertaining a 30 sec convo near HP after the restriction, which was discussed in our post-game.

These situations are normally a HTBT, but I certainly appreciate the feedback.

[Mike Prince]

Well, that's fine and it worked out for you (but easily could not have).  My advice would be to not try to be "cute" during these discussions.  Take the Joe Friday approach to the next one.

[blue23ll]

We don't debate mechanics with a coach. We don't ask them about coaching, they don't get to discuss mechanics. In this case, I would explain the call, once. "Coach, I saw the ball hit the ground, let's play" and move away from him. He follows, then he gets progressive discipline.

[maven]

Matt provided the textbook way to handle the situation. To elaborate:

 

1. Let coach have his say. It's what he came out for, and you're not going to get the game moving till he has it.

2. When he stops or repeats, tell him what you saw and your ruling. Keep it short: this is not an argument, it's a summary in the briefest possible way, of your judgment and your ruling.

3. When he starts to argue, it's about 1 of 2 things:

     a. your judgment: "Coach, the judgment part of the ruling is not open to discussion."

     b. the rule: if he asks a pertinent question, he gets a short answer; usually he'll ask a hypothetical, and he gets, "Coach, we're not going into hypotheticals."

4. If he persists: "Coach, that's enough, now, let's play ball."

 

I see so many umpires who want to shut coach down immediately, and then they want to fight, and have to be right. You don't have to convince coach: your objective is to get him off the field. Preferably still in the game, but that's up to him...

[BRUMP]

Varsity game last Friday night. Big county rivalry, one team was fighting for a playoff spot, other was already out (hoping to be the spoiler) Tie ball game, Top 6, 2 out, man on 3rd. Line drive hit to LF, ball hits ground just short of diving LF's glove. 'No catch' said, safe signal, point at ground. HTHC goes ballistic and sprinting out to me (surprisingly making a pit stop at the foul line until I granted 'Time') yelling "How can you make that call from here?" (Referring to my area bw 2nd and 3rd base - on the baseline). I calmly ask "Well, Coach, where would you like me to go?" "I want you to get your A$$ in the OF!!!" "Coach, I can't do that. If theres nothing else to add, it's time to go back to the dugout." He ranted and raved for a lil while longer before I went down my checklist. Warned him, restricted him, but never got to Step 3 (he looked at me with a 'How could you' look before returning to the dugout). I don't think I have ever seen a coach do so many circles around an umpire and get as red as this man did. All the while, I stood in the middle of the raindance repeating "the ball hit the ground coach." Edit to add: when word spread through my association about the entire weekend series, my name was never even mentioned. It seems my partner and the 2 guys from Saturday made more of a 'lasting impression' than the young buck from Friday's 'no catch.'

 

when a coach starts telling me how to do his job....his leash shortens big time....i would've told him coach thats enough right after he said you need to get your ass in the OF.....turned and walked away...if he's still jawing he's done

[ALStripes17]

Varsity game last Friday night. Big county rivalry, one team was fighting for a playoff spot, other was already out (hoping to be the spoiler) Tie ball game, Top 6, 2 out, man on 3rd. Line drive hit to LF, ball hits ground just short of diving LF's glove. 'No catch' said, safe signal, point at ground. HTHC goes ballistic and sprinting out to me (surprisingly making a pit stop at the foul line until I granted 'Time') yelling "How can you make that call from here?" (Referring to my area bw 2nd and 3rd base - on the baseline). I calmly ask "Well, Coach, where would you like me to go?" "I want you to get your A$$ in the OF!!!" "Coach, I can't do that. If theres nothing else to add, it's time to go back to the dugout." He ranted and raved for a lil while longer before I went down my checklist. Warned him, restricted him, but never got to Step 3 (he looked at me with a 'How could you' look before returning to the dugout). I don't think I have ever seen a coach do so many circles around an umpire and get as red as this man did. All the while, I stood in the middle of the raindance repeating "the ball hit the ground coach." Edit to add: when word spread through my association about the entire weekend series, my name was never even mentioned. It seems my partner and the 2 guys from Saturday made more of a 'lasting impression' than the young buck from Friday's 'no catch.'

when a coach starts telling me how to do his job....his leash shortens big time....i would've told him coach thats enough right after he said you need to get your ass in the OF.....turned and walked away...if he's still jawing he's done

I actually found his response more humorous honestly because I know that I did what our mechanics book states. One of the drawbacks of a 2-man system.

If I wouldn't have asked him the question, that statement would have been the end of discussion guaranteed. But as Matt pointed out earlier, I asked for the response :)

[Mike Prince]

Why does everyone use the "drawbacks of the two-man system" as a crutch?  I don't get it and would never use it as an excuse in a coach conversation

[ALStripes17]

Why does everyone use the "drawbacks of the two-man system" as a crutch? I don't get it and would never use it as an excuse in a coach conversation

Where was that used in coach conversation here?

We are umpires discussing umpire things. The more blues you have on the field, the closer our crew is able to get to 'optimum angle and distance'

[maven]

The more blues you have on the field, the closer our crew is able to get to 'optimum angle and distance'

Reminds me of Lance's 13-man mechanics: one for each base and each fielder.

 

Yes, @UmpJM, that means 2 at HP.

[Mike Prince]

 

Why does everyone use the "drawbacks of the two-man system" as a crutch? I don't get it and would never use it as an excuse in a coach conversation

Where was that used in coach conversation here?

We are umpires discussing umpire things. The more blues you have on the field, the closer our crew is able to get to 'optimum angle and distance'

 

Calm down.  It was a general comment, not directed at anything directly here (notice I did not quote anything).  If I had a bone to pick directly with you I would have, your comment about it made me think of it.

[Jocko]

@ALStripes17 - Don't know about you (or others), but I HATE being called "Blue"

I told you my name at the plate meeting. Use it.

[ALStripes17]

@ALStripes17 - Don't know about you (or others), but I HATE being called "Blue" I told you my name at the plate meeting. Use it.

Would you like me to edit my post to say, "the more (Jockos) we have on the field..."? Edit: took out the apostrophe in 'Jockos' because I'm from AL and can't write good (sic) in the first place

[Jocko]

@ALStripes17 - one Jocko is enough. :D

[MadMax]

Wow, he (coach) pretty much served up a potential Jocko-esque reply on the tee for you...

 

You were in (approximately) C, with R3 and 2 outs? Arcing liner to F7 (Left Fielder)? Your head follows the path of the ball, and you're looking right at it from where you're standing? _Should_ you be going to see it? No. Once you leave (the boundaries of the basepaths), you are not supposed to return. With a R3, your PU is riveted to HP, while you (or _somebody_) have/has to be conscious of a throw in to 2B or 1B from F7 receiving the ball.

 

And the coach came running ("sprinting", even? Coaches can move that fast?) out _to_ you?

 

So that means you could have replied, in your best deadpan, "How is it that sitting over there (dugout) is a better viewpoint than my standing right here?!"

[tjwoelfel13]

The world would explode if there was more than one Jocko.   

[Pete Peterson Sr]

 

@ALStripes17 - Don't know about you (or others), but I HATE being called "Blue"

I told you my name at the plate meeting. Use it.

Would you like me to edit my post to say, "the more (Jockos) we have on the field..."?

Edit: took out the apostrophe in 'Jockos' because I'm from AL and can't write good (sic) in the first place

 

 

That's okay, kid. Jocko is currently from Alabama, and he can't read so good, either...

[Mark Pepper]

@ALStripes17 - Don't know about you (or others), but I HATE being called "Blue"

I told you my name at the plate meeting. Use it.

I don't mind being called "Blue" at all.  He told me his name too, but I call him "Coach."  If we were like for like he'd call me "Umpire."  I think that's worse! 

[Jocko]

@Mark Pepper - I make it a point to know every HC's name. And write it on their lineup card. Each time I speak with him, I use his name.