Had Obstruction Today

[baseballfan]

Did a 11-12 year old game today, and wouldn't you know it.... there was type-B obstruction. However, I'm now wondering if I got the call right or not. Basically BR gets a clean hit to the outfield in between CF and LF. Right as BR is rounding first (not sure if he was thinking double or not), he gets obstructed by F3. I immediately point and say, "That's obstruction!" At this time, both F7 (holding the ball) and BR hesitate. BR is about 10 feet off 1st by now. He starts to move towards 2nd, but never goes into a full-on sprint. Eventually, ball is thrown back in, and BR is tagged about 5 feet off 2nd. Instead of awarding him 2nd or 1st, I call BR out. My explanation to the OC was that if he had kept sprinting rather than hesitating and being cautious about going to 2nd, I could have given him the base because of OBS. But because of the hesitation, I ruled the OBS didn't make a difference.

 

I know this is hard to visualize maybe, but is your gut reaction that I booted this one, or got it right? I'm just not sure. What is a good guideline for awarding bases, if any, in the type-B OBS?

[MB_Ump]

Once you called the obstruction, you protected that runner to second (or however far you judged they would have gone if the obs had not occured). The fact that the runner slowed down was still caused by the obs and your acknowledgement of it.

[basejester]

Your call sounds right to me.   You nullify the obstruction, not the reaction to the call of obstruction.

[Jocko]

Once you call this obs, you protect him to the bag you judge he would have gotten had the obs not occurred. Regardless of his speed, decisions, what have you AFTER the obs is called. If you judge he would have made 2B, he's protected into 2B. If he chooses to pass 2B, he's in jeopardy. If you protected him to 2B, he can't be put out before reaching 2B. His actions don't change that.

[Texas Manny]

Once you call this obs, you protect him to the bag you judge he would have gotten had the obs not occurred. Regardless of his speed, decisions, what have you AFTER the obs is called. If you judge he would have made 2B, he's protected into 2B. If he chooses to pass 2B, he's in jeopardy. If you protected him to 2B, he can't be put out before reaching 2B. His actions don't change that.

Jocko is right. I didn't want to be the first poster, but you should have called "Time!" Pointed at the first baseman and said "That's obstruction!" Then point to the runner and say "You! Second base!", when the fielder tried to tag him by second base.

[ricka56]

You may have gotten the call right, I dunno, HTBT, but if you did it was for the wrong reason. BR may have thought that his chances of a double were gone because of the contact with F3 and stopped because of it. You have to decide whether or not he could of had 2B had the contact not happened, not based on his abandoning his 2B attempt.

 

Sometimes coaches send obstructed runners thinking it is a free base if they go (it is not free). Conversely, if a runner doesn't resume base advancement, it doesn't mean you don't award base(s) (double-negative, I know, sorry). Look at an extreme case, F3 obstructs BR, BR falls and is injured, you don't keep him at 1B just because he didn't attempt to go for 2B. 

[blue23ll]

This is Type B, there is no time called you let the play continue or wait until action stops. As was stated, you protect the runner to the base that 'in your judgement' he would have attained if the obstruction had not occurred.

[basejester]

The award isn't fixed at the time of the obstruction. 

 

A)

 

E.g., the ball is hit to the outfield.  The first baseman obstructs,  costing the batter-runner three steps.  At the time, the umpire thinks he'll make second base safely.  Then the outfielder misplays the ball.  The batter-run is thrown out at third by one step.  The umpire should award third base, which he would have reached without the obstruction.  Right?

 

Maybe you're arguing that the you should never revise down the initial award assessment.

 

Consider this scenario. 

 

B)

 

Ball hit to the outfield.  The first baseman obstructs,  costing the batter-runner three steps.  Runner recovers.  Halfway to second base, the batter-runner falls down, completely unrelated to the obstruction.  The defense tags him out.

 

 

C)

Or, perhaps the batter-runner abandons his attempt to advance.  If you think we should consider the fall above, do we assume he doesn't fall down if he stops?  Thinking aloud here.

[basejester]

OP, what rule set?

[JaxRolo]

 

Once you call this obs, you protect him to the bag you judge he would have gotten had the obs not occurred. Regardless of his speed, decisions, what have you AFTER the obs is called. If you judge he would have made 2B, he's protected into 2B. If he chooses to pass 2B, he's in jeopardy. If you protected him to 2B, he can't be put out before reaching 2B. His actions don't change that.

Jocko is right. I didn't want to be the first poster, but you should have called "Time!" Pointed at the first baseman and said "That's obstruction!" Then point to the runner and say "You! Second base!", when the fielder tried to tag him by second base.

 

 

That's a first!!! Congrats @Jocko !!!!

[noumpere]

Once you called the obstruction, you protected that runner to second (or however far you judged they would have gone if the obs had not occured). The fact that the runner slowed down was still caused by the obs and your acknowledgement of it.

If its HS rules, then you protect him to at least second.  But if its pro rules then theres no minimum award on this type of OBS.

 

Your play is very similar to the MLB playoffs a few years ago where there was OBS on a runner rounding third.  he jogged home, was thrown out, and the out call properly stood.

 

Whether you made the right call or not is judgment on your part and you were there and I wasn't so I wont comment on that -- only that the right reasoning is needed to make the call.

[VAUmp]

Type B obstruction is a delayed dead ball.  You should never yell TIME and award the runner anything.  IF he was tagged out at 2B, then you could award it to him if you feel he would have made it safely without obstruction.  The fact that he stopped between the bases, I would judge that he would not have made it safely regardless of the Obstruction, and called him out.  I think you got it right.  

[elares]

Some are calling this type A and some type B.  I am confused by some guidance I have received recently about this.

If the play started with no runners on base, then every movement of the batted ball is a play on BR so even with the ball in LF, isn't F7 making a play on BR?  That would make it type A.   

In the OP, BR is tagged out at second, being played upon after being obstructed.  Does that make it type A OBS?    

[grayhawk]

 

Once you call this obs, you protect him to the bag you judge he would have gotten had the obs not occurred. Regardless of his speed, decisions, what have you AFTER the obs is called. If you judge he would have made 2B, he's protected into 2B. If he chooses to pass 2B, he's in jeopardy. If you protected him to 2B, he can't be put out before reaching 2B. His actions don't change that.

Jocko is right. I didn't want to be the first poster, but you should have called "Time!" Pointed at the first baseman and said "That's obstruction!" Then point to the runner and say "You! Second base!", when the fielder tried to tag him by second base.

 

 

Manny, you wrote your post in a way that suggests calling time at the moment of obstruction, but I don't believe that is what you meant to say.  You are saying to call time AFTER he is tagged - correct?  So the sequence of events:

 

When runner is obstructed, point at the obstruction and declare "That's obstruction!"

Runner continues and is tagged near second base - "Time, that was obstruction!" (pointing back towards F3).  "You!  Second base!" (pointing at the runner."

 

Is that what you intended to convey?

[grayhawk]

Some are calling this type A and some type B.  I am confused by some guidance I have received recently about this.

If the play started with no runners on base, then every movement of the batted ball is a play on BR so even with the ball in LF, isn't F7 making a play on BR?  That would make it type A.   

In the OP, BR is tagged out at second, being played upon after being obstructed.  Does that make it type A OBS?    

 

No, this is Type B all the way.  For type A (with the exception of BR being obstructed before reaching first), you need three things:  Runner, Fielder, and BALL.  The ball needs to be there, or on the way there, for it to be Type A.

[noumpere]

Some are calling this type A and some type B.  I am confused by some guidance I have received recently about this.

If the play started with no runners on base, then every movement of the batted ball is a play on BR so even with the ball in LF, isn't F7 making a play on BR?  That would make it type A.   

In the OP, BR is tagged out at second, being played upon after being obstructed.  Does that make it type A OBS?    

The "type As" are wrong here.

 

One of the manuals (paging Manny) has a description of "play" as it applies here (actually, it might be in the "first or second play by an infielder" section) but It needs to be an attempt by a fielder to actually retire a runner.  A ball that the outfielder is still holding is very unlikely to qualify.

[ricka56]

If the play started with no runners on base, then every movement of the batted ball is a play on BR so even with the ball in LF, isn't F7 making a play on BR?  That would make it type A.   

 

Depends on what F7 is doing. If F7 is throwing to a base where a play on BR can be made and BR is obstructed that would be type 'A'. If F7 is just hitting a cutoff man and there is obstruction, that would be type 'B' and you allow the play to continue (don't kill the play by calling time).

[Texas Manny]

 

 

Once you call this obs, you protect him to the bag you judge he would have gotten had the obs not occurred. Regardless of his speed, decisions, what have you AFTER the obs is called. If you judge he would have made 2B, he's protected into 2B. If he chooses to pass 2B, he's in jeopardy. If you protected him to 2B, he can't be put out before reaching 2B. His actions don't change that.

Jocko is right. I didn't want to be the first poster, but you should have called "Time!" Pointed at the first baseman and said "That's obstruction!" Then point to the runner and say "You! Second base!", when the fielder tried to tag him by second base.

 

 

Manny, you wrote your post in a way that suggests calling time at the moment of obstruction, but I don't believe that is what you meant to say.  You are saying to call time AFTER he is tagged - correct?  So the sequence of events:

 

When runner is obstructed, point at the obstruction and declare "That's obstruction!"

Runner continues and is tagged near second base - "Time, that was obstruction!" (pointing back towards F3).  "You!  Second base!" (pointing at the runner."

 

Is that what you intended to convey?

 

Time is not called until the moment the fielder applies the tag on the obstructed runer. That's why I said, "Blah, blah, blah.., when the fielder tried to tag him by second base."

 

When the obstruction originally occurred, you simply point and say "That's obstruction!"  Let the play continue.

 

I could have written the response better.

[Rich Ives]

Once you called the obstruction, you protected that runner to second (or however far you judged they would have gone if the obs had not occured). The fact that the runner slowed down was still caused by the obs and your acknowledgement of it.

 

 

Not with type b.  There is no guaranteed base. You wait until it plays out to make the final determination. This one sounds like a good call.

[MB_Ump]

Once you called the obstruction, you protected that runner to second (or however far you judged they would have gone if the obs had not occured). The fact that the runner slowed down was still caused by the obs and your acknowledgement of it.

 

 

Not with type b.  There is no guaranteed base. You wait until it plays out to make the final determination. This one sounds like a good call.

Realtively new umpire here and not arguing as I see the wording "if any" in 7.06(b) that would I would assume allows you to not award a base, however, what do you say when the coach comes out to argue. 1) The runner's reaction after the call nullified the Obs, 2) The obs cost him 3 steps, but he was thrown out by 5...

[Mr Umpire]

 

 

Once you called the obstruction, you protected that runner to second (or however far you judged they would have gone if the obs had not occured). The fact that the runner slowed down was still caused by the obs and your acknowledgement of it.

 

 

Not with type b.  There is no guaranteed base. You wait until it plays out to make the final determination. This one sounds like a good call.

Realtively new umpire here and not arguing as I see the wording "if any" in 7.06(b) that would I would assume allows you to not award a base, however, what do you say when the coach comes out to argue. 1) The runner's reaction after the call nullified the Obs, 2) The obs cost him 3 steps, but he was thrown out by 5...

 

Simply tell him "In my judgment, the runner would not have made it to 2B if the OBS did not happen."  That kills the entire argument.  If he continues, simply say "It's my judgment and he would not have made it."  End of discussion if he continues b/c he has no argument and no protest.