Calling Balks leads to ej

[ump570]

I'm BU for a 13U travel championship game. Level of play is pretty high. One team just went to the Ripken International Championship and lost to Japan 3-2. Other team is loaded with talent as well. Anyway, bottom of the 1st, R1. Pitcher goes into stretch and blasts right through his motion without coming set. "That's a Balk!" I call it and nobody argues. It was very obvious. Two pitches later, kid does it again. "That's a Balk!" I call it again. Coach doesn't argue, knows he didn't stop. At this point, I realize pitcher is very nervous, and I ask him, "Do you know what you're doing wrong. If you'd like I can show you." He politely says, "Yes, Sir, I know what I did." Unbelievably, the kid does it again 3 pitches later. At that point, team's asst. coach shouts, "Come on Blue! You're watching too much for balks!" I ignore. A few pitches later, bases loaded 2 outs, and 2 strikes on batter. Kid check swings. Partner appeals to me. I didn't have him going. I say, "No, he didn't." I hear grumbling from asst. coach again. I ignore. Next pitch, kid hits a bases clearing double. Here comes the crazy. Asst. coach who was chirping shouts at me from the bench area, "Those 3 runs are on you blue! That would have been strike 3! You F#$%*in' suck Blue!" I punch his ticket. Then, he starts flaring me from the bench and repeating over and over, "F#@$ You Blue! My partner walks over and tells him, "Knock it off, there are small kids here, and if you don't stop cursing and leave I'm going to have to eject mgr."

 

Anyway, this team was out of control from the start. They ended up losing 15-0, and their kids were very disrespectful. The mgr. had no control over his coaching staff or his kids. They said and did whatever they wanted.

[mstaylor]

Did you address the coach on the balk statement? I would have told him,"That's enough!" If they are that high a level then they certainly should know how to not balk. He gets the boot on the counting. His continued rant needs to be addressed to the manager. Get rid of him if you will be gone too. Idiots like this have no business around kids, no matter his knowledge. 

[umpcoachfather]

MST is correct as usual.  Hand goes up immediatley on the 1st one.  I would not be instructing these kids, that's for the coaches, he can ask why you balked him.  What was the PU doing during all of this?  Why wasnt he calling them?

[JaxRolo]

Where was your partner on this? Did he call any balks?

[bam]

Did he at least echo your balks??

[mstaylor]

More importantly, did he disagree with any after the game? 

[ump570]

The PU is very new. In fact, he's done fewer than 20 games total. He did mirror my calls, but he didn't initiate any of the calls.

[ump570]

More importantly, did he disagree with any after the game? 

He did not disagree. It was hard to disagree with these. The kid didn't even come close to stopping. The mgr. didn't even argue. He just kept telling F1 to pause, and the kid just didn't get it.  I'm not a hard ass at this level when it comes to calling balks. I don't nitpick, but during the pregame, I always remind the coaches that we will call balks for not stopping and that it's important that you remind your pitcher.

[scrounge]

The PU is very new. In fact, he's done fewer than 20 games total. He did mirror my calls, but he didn't initiate any of the calls.

 

That's a pretty intense game for a newbie...

[semper_fi_72]

At this point, I realize pitcher is very nervous, and I ask him, "Do you know what you're doing wrong. If you'd like I can show you."

 

 

Big No NO!!!!!!!!!

Umpire and stay out of coaching.

State why the Balk was called.

Never SHOW.

If I was a coach and you showed my F1 why he Balked I would tell you to do your job and stay out of mine.

[mstaylor]

If these kids are at the level you indicated, call the balk, tell him he blew the stop and go on. I have no patience for a coach complaining about you doing your job when he hasn't done his. 

[blue23ll]

This is a perfect example of why you don't take any crap from assistant coaches. If you ignore it early you will have to deal with it later. Shut it down right away, and remind the mgr/head coach, you deal with him.

[mstaylor]

This is a perfect example of why you don't take any crap from assistant coaches. If you ignore it early you will have to deal with it later. Shut it down right away, and remind the mgr/head coach, you deal with him.

While true, he didn't really get a chance to manage him through the manager, this was the first inning. 

[ump570]

 

At this point, I realize pitcher is very nervous, and I ask him, "Do you know what you're doing wrong. If you'd like I can show you."

 

 

Big No NO!!!!!!!!!

Umpire and stay out of coaching.

State why the Balk was called.

Never SHOW.

If I was a coach and you showed my F1 why he Balked I would tell you to do your job and stay out of mine.

 

I know what you're saying, I just couldn't believe that the mgr. of what was supposed to be a very good team would just hang the kid out to dry this way. I mean, holy SH*#, the kid threw 5 pitches and balked on 3 of them in the first inning. I've never seen that happen and a coach not at least come out and settle the kid down. I know I shouldn't have said anything, but I actually felt bad for the kid. The next inning, the kid actually dropped the ball while on the rubber with a guy on 3rd.

[blue23ll]

 

This is a perfect example of why you don't take any crap from assistant coaches. If you ignore it early you will have to deal with it later. Shut it down right away, and remind the mgr/head coach, you deal with him.

While true, he didn't really get a chance to manage him through the manager, this was the first inning. 

 

 

I'm not so sure. After the assistant yelled from the bench I would have looked over at the Mgr and said something like, "Bill, we aren't doing that today". If the mgr asks "what?", then I will tell him. First inning, last inning, doesn't matter, just take care of business.

[Jocko]

Sound like the team wasn't as good as their reputation. Learning point......

Each game is its own animal. Where a team is ranked, theirpast performances and accomplishments, and their reputation don't amount to diddly SH*# once the ball is in play. Dont get caught up in the hoopla. Its just another game between 2 youth teams. Pool, bracket, or championship......same same same

[grayhawk]

 

More importantly, did he disagree with any after the game? 

He did not disagree. It was hard to disagree with these. The kid didn't even come close to stopping. The mgr. didn't even argue. He just kept telling F1 to pause, and the kid just didn't get it.  I'm not a hard ass at this level when it comes to calling balks. I don't nitpick, but during the pregame, I always remind the coaches that we will call balks for not stopping and that it's important that you remind your pitcher.

 

 

Just curious to know why you do this.  I don't see any reason to discuss what/how we will be calling in any aspect of the game.  The exception would be how the feint to third will be handled, since coaches rarely seem to know what ruleset is being used.  I just think telling them what kind of balks will be called opens a can of worms.  If you then don't call one in the game, they have ammo to complain (not that they usually need ammo).

[BigSimonia]

MST is correct as usual.  Hand goes up immediatley on the 1st one.  I would not be instructing these kids, that's for the coaches, he can ask why you balked him.  What was the PU doing during all of this?  Why wasnt he calling them?

You are the umpire - not the coach.  If the coach wants to know what you called, tell HIM and let him decide how to tell the kid.  Even at this level, if I think the kid is having a problem understanding or simply "not getting it" I'll talk to the coach not the kid

[ump570]

 

 

More importantly, did he disagree with any after the game? 

He did not disagree. It was hard to disagree with these. The kid didn't even come close to stopping. The mgr. didn't even argue. He just kept telling F1 to pause, and the kid just didn't get it.  I'm not a hard ass at this level when it comes to calling balks. I don't nitpick, but during the pregame, I always remind the coaches that we will call balks for not stopping and that it's important that you remind your pitcher.

 

 

Just curious to know why you do this.  I don't see any reason to discuss what/how we will be calling in any aspect of the game.  The exception would be how the feint to third will be handled, since coaches rarely seem to know what ruleset is being used.  I just think telling them what kind of balks will be called opens a can of worms.  If you then don't call one in the game, they have ammo to complain (not that they usually need ammo)

In some of these tournaments, particularly in age groups such as 13U, coaches will invariably ask, "Are we calling balks right away or is there a warning?" I just let them know we will be calling balks and that the most common balk we see with 13U is pitchers not coming set. I don't always pre-game it, but if the coaches ask about balks, I let them know that this is the one we see the most. I never really considered why I do it, it just seemed like it made sense. I also let them know that the fake to third will be called since we play MLB ruleset.  I guess I shouldn't have said I "always" remind the coach because it doesn't always happen, but it often comes up.

[ricka56]

 

In some of these tournaments, particularly in age groups such as 13U, coaches will invariably ask, "Are we calling balks right away or is there a warning?" I just let them know we will be calling balks and that the most common balk we see with 13U is pitchers not coming set. I don't always pre-game it, but if the coaches ask about balks, I let them know that this is the one we see the most. I never really considered why I do it, it just seemed like it made sense. I also let them know that the fake to third will be called since we play MLB ruleset.  I guess I shouldn't have said I "always" remind the coach because it doesn't always happen, but it often comes up.

 

This plate meeting balk discussion is unnecessary and as grayhawk says can lead to trouble later. Consider not bringing up the subject of balks. Instead, if a coaches ask about balks, respond with "we will be calling age appropriate balks", and leave it at that. Now all upcoming action is your judgement.

[Pete Peterson Sr]

 

 

 

More importantly, did he disagree with any after the game? 

He did not disagree. It was hard to disagree with these. The kid didn't even come close to stopping. The mgr. didn't even argue. He just kept telling F1 to pause, and the kid just didn't get it.  I'm not a hard ass at this level when it comes to calling balks. I don't nitpick, but during the pregame, I always remind the coaches that we will call balks for not stopping and that it's important that you remind your pitcher.

 

 

Just curious to know why you do this.  I don't see any reason to discuss what/how we will be calling in any aspect of the game.  The exception would be how the feint to third will be handled, since coaches rarely seem to know what ruleset is being used.  I just think telling them what kind of balks will be called opens a can of worms.  If you then don't call one in the game, they have ammo to complain (not that they usually need ammo)

In some of these tournaments, particularly in age groups such as 13U, coaches will invariably ask, "Are we calling balks right away or is there a warning?" I just let them know we will be calling balks and that the most common balk we see with 13U is pitchers not coming set. I don't always pre-game it, but if the coaches ask about balks, I let them know that this is the one we see the most. I never really considered why I do it, it just seemed like it made sense. I also let them know that the fake to third will be called since we play MLB ruleset.  I guess I shouldn't have said I "always" remind the coach because it doesn't always happen, but it often comes up.

 

Purpose of a plate meeting: To get the coaches names and give them ours. To exchange lineup cards.To discuss any relevant ground rules. To ask if all players are properly equipped (if required).For coin toss (if required). Notice that rules clinic isn't mentioned in my list. I would no more tell a coach, in a plate meeting, what will be called a balk than I would tell him where my strike zone is. YMMV.

[basejester]

Instead, if a coaches ask about balks, respond with "we will be calling age appropriate balks", and leave it at that. Now all upcoming action is your judgement.

If I were the manager, I would want a clarification. In your experience, are managers satisfied with that answer?

[JaxRolo]

The PU is very new. In fact, he's done fewer than 20 games total. He did mirror my calls, but he didn't initiate any of the calls.

That's a pretty intense game for a newbie... I agree! A championship game and a very beginner behind the plate? Wow I bet the veterans were pi$$ed!

[Jocko]

@JaxRolo- its just another game. The vets were knee deep in empty beer cans by the end of the "championship" game.

[ricka56]

 

Instead, if a coaches ask about balks, respond with "we will be calling age appropriate balks", and leave it at that. Now all upcoming action is your judgement.

If I were the manager, I would want a clarification. In your experience, are managers satisfied with that answer?

 

If I have a higher talented level game (as the OP), coaches don't usually ask if we're calling balks (and I didn't initiate the topic), so I don't need to elaborate at all. It's usually at the lower levels where some F1 know what they are doing, while others...not so much that coaches want to know about balks. Actually, they seem to like my response. It communicates that I'm not calling every ticky-tack balk that would just ruin a game, but I will call significant (my judgement) balks. If they want further clarification, they're going to be disappointed. These guys are usually one of those PITA daddy coaches that wants me to call every ticky-tack balk I see. I don't let them paint me into a corner at the plate meeting.