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Pick off attempt

Umpire in Chief

By Umpire in Chief
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Umpire in Chief
Umpire in Chief

Have you seen this?   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuY_vi5BaUI      

BalkHawk
BalkHawk

If only he had been staring into his Ipad...  

BigUmpire
BigUmpire

You guys can talk about balks all day long.   I see an ejection here.   This pitcher knew exactly what he was doing.   Pinpoint control right where it hurts.

maven

maven

Posted
Posted

 

Thats a balk!

Seriously?  Why?

 

And I know that sometimes my jokes don't get read as such so maybe that's what happened here.

 

 

I think it's a balk, too. Failing to throw to 1B.

 

When F3 is on the base and can't reach the throw, F1 has violated OBR 8.05c/FED 6-2-4.

 

Depending on how bad F1 was, I agree this might have been intentional.

NFUA_44

NFUA_44

Posted
Posted

Thats a balk!

That's Priceless!

I would have a hard time trying to explain that balk with a straight face. I can easily see where F1 confused the BC with his F3, and I don't see any real "intent" to take him out. That part of it is more HTBT though, there could be some history.

I have called the balk for the fient to 1st by throwing away from the bag many times, this doesn't look like it IMHO.

maven

maven

Posted
Posted

I guess if you thought it was intentional you could have a balk (and possibly an EJ) but otherwise it's just a bad throw and not a balk.

 

A bad throw away from 1B IS a balk by rule. As you know, F1 is required to throw "to the base."

 

For me, as I mentioned, if F3 is on the base and can't reach the throw, I'm probably ruling that the throw was not sufficiently to the base.

maven

maven

Posted
Posted

Are we disagreeing about the rule or its application to this play?

 

We all know that, when throwing to 1B, F1 must throw "to the base," correct?

 

But some folks feel the play in the video is sufficiently close?

 

I can understand disagreement about the judgment call.

NFUA_44

NFUA_44

Posted
Posted

Maven;

I'm not disagreeing with you about the rule, and I can see it being POSSIBLE here, I just see it more of a bad throw than something I would balk. Its got BIG HTBT written all over it

grayhawk

grayhawk

Posted
Posted

 

I guess if you thought it was intentional you could have a balk (and possibly an EJ) but otherwise it's just a bad throw and not a balk.

 

A bad throw away from 1B IS a balk by rule. As you know, F1 is required to throw "to the base."

 

For me, as I mentioned, if F3 is on the base and can't reach the throw, I'm probably ruling that the throw was not sufficiently to the base.

 

 

He's not required to throw to the base if F1 is off the base and, in the umpire's judgement, making a play on the runner.  Not relevant to this video, but making a blanket statement that the throw must be to the base is not accurate.

NFUA_44

NFUA_44

Posted
Posted

Correct me if I am wrong, its not so much about the base (as freyhawk mentioned) but about the fact that throwing it where there is no reasonable chance for a play is an illegal feint to 1st

maven

maven

Posted
Posted

Correct me if I am wrong, its not so much about the base (as freyhawk mentioned) but about the fact that throwing it where there is no reasonable chance for a play is an illegal feint to 1st

If there's a throw, it's not a feint ("fake throw").

OBR explicitly requires throwing TO THE BASE (1B only). So it IS about the base.

The interp permitting a throw to F3 in position to make a play is a guideline for judging whether the throw was sufficiently to the base.

maven

NFUA_44

NFUA_44

Posted
Posted

Correct me if I am wrong, its not so much about the base (as freyhawk mentioned) but about the fact that throwing it where there is no reasonable chance for a play is an illegal feint to 1st

If there's a throw, it's not a feint ("fake throw").

OBR explicitly requires throwing TO THE BASE (1B only). So it IS about the base.

The interp permitting a throw to F3 in position to make a play is a guideline for judging whether the throw was sufficiently to the base.

maven That makes sense, and I stand corrected! Now I'm wondering how that relates to a throw to F3 who is away from the base but making a play on R1? At work so no manuals to ref, am I thinking of an Interp or AO maybe?

ON EDIT: Doh, never mind just saw the bottom of your post maven that answers it! I hate reading on this phone!

grayhawk

grayhawk

Posted
Posted

 

Correct me if I am wrong, its not so much about the base (as freyhawk mentioned) but about the fact that throwing it where there is no reasonable chance for a play is an illegal feint to 1st

If there's a throw, it's not a feint ("fake throw").

OBR explicitly requires throwing TO THE BASE (1B only). So it IS about the base.

The interp permitting a throw to F3 in position to make a play is a guideline for judging whether the throw was sufficiently to the base.

maven

 

 

Not according to Jim Evans in his balk video.  He shows an example with F3 well off the base, but breaking and F3 is still 10+ feet from the base when he catches it.  So there are 2 ways to make it legal:

 

1.  Throw to the base

2.  Umpire judges that a play was being made to retire R1

 

They are mutually exclusive.

maven

maven

Posted
Posted

Not according to Jim Evans in his balk video.  He shows an example with F3 well off the base, but breaking and F3 is still 10+ feet from the base when he catches it.  So there are 2 ways to make it legal:

 

1.  Throw to the base

2.  Umpire judges that a play was being made to retire R1

 

They are mutually exclusive.

OK, first of all, you don't mean that they're mutually exclusive. If they were, it would be impossible to make a play on R1 while F3 is on 1B, which is silly. :)

 

Second, my understanding is consistent with the Evans video (IIRC your report of "10+ feet from the base" is an exaggeration, but no matter). The point is that being in a position to make a play on R1 going back into 1b JUST IS what it means to throw "to the base." That's the guideline. They're not inconsistent or different: one is a rule of thumb to help us interpret the other.

 

The point of the play in the Evans video is that F3 does not have to be on the base to receive the throw: the defense can have a set play where the ball is thrown to the base and F3 moves there to catch it and make a play.

 

So I think we agree. In any case, nothing in the rule permits a throw to a fielder away from the base, so this has to be interp and not rule. It makes more sense if it's interpreting the actual provision that governs throws to 1B. ;)

BigUmpire

BigUmpire

Posted
Posted

You guys can talk about balks all day long.

 

I see an ejection here.

 

This pitcher knew exactly what he was doing.

 

Pinpoint control right where it hurts.

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