Knowing your rotations

[wmmliggett]

I had this situation on the small field. Nobody on, I was in the A. Batter hits a line drive to right field for a clean single. I buttonhook in and watch the B/R  hit first base and I take rhim to second. As he approaches second, I see F9 holding his ams up, indiicating the ball went throught the fence. At the the same time, I hear my plate guy telling me to go check the ball. When I look up, I see my plate guy standing at third base and I ask myself, "What the "F" are you doing here?" I proceed to follow protocol and take the B/R to third. As soon as he hit third, I turned around and was going to go check the ball. When I turned around, F( was on his hands and knees reaching through the fence to grab the ball. At this point, I think to myself, "Well, no need to go check it now. Home run." Plate guy, who had the responsibility of following the ball  and keeping his ass at home, wanted to put the B/R at second and I said NO. We had a huge blowup over that one (on the field, unfortunately) to the point that the assigner separated us the rest of the tourney.

 

He further egged it on by telling other umpires how I had screwed up. I finally got to the point that I had heard enough and asked him who's responsibility it is to take the B/R to third and he kept stumbling over his words until finally admitting that the base guy has the B/R to third and he was supposed to watch the ball.

 

Fortunately for me, the other umpires know which of us is the competent one.

[JaxRolo]

Might it have occurred to you that you screwed up?

[jmpnjmy]

 As he approaches second, I see F9 holding his ams up, indiicating the ball went throught the fence.

 

Homerun?

[noumpere]

I had this situation on the small field. Nobody on, I was in the A. Batter hits a line drive to right field for a clean single. I buttonhook in and watch the B/R  hit first base and I take rhim to second. As he approaches second, I see F9 holding his ams up, indiicating the ball went throught the fence. At the the same time, I hear my plate guy telling me to go check the ball. When I look up, I see my plate guy standing at third base and I ask myself, "What the "F" are you doing here?" I proceed to follow protocol and take the B/R to third. As soon as he hit third, I turned around and was going to go check the ball. When I turned around, F( was on his hands and knees reaching through the fence to grab the ball. At this point, I think to myself, "Well, no need to go check it now. Home run." Plate guy, who had the responsibility of following the ball  and keeping his ass at home, wanted to put the B/R at second and I said NO. We had a huge blowup over that one (on the field, unfortunately) to the point that the assigner separated us the rest of the tourney.

 

He further egged it on by telling other umpires how I had screwed up. I finally got to the point that I had heard enough and asked him who's responsibility it is to take the B/R to third and he kept stumbling over his words until finally admitting that the base guy has the B/R to third and he was supposed to watch the ball.

 

Fortunately for me, the other umpires know which of us is the competent one.

Based on what you posted I think Id rather work alone.  You kicked the award, he kicked the rotation, you both acted less mature than whatever age plays on "the small field"

[sdix00]

What did the police say?

[Thunderheads]

I had this situation on the small field. Nobody on, I was in the A. Batter hits a line drive to right field for a clean single. I buttonhook in and watch the B/R  hit first base and I take rhim to second. As he approaches second, I see F9 holding his ams up, indiicating the ball went throught the fence. At the the same time, I hear my plate guy telling me to go check the ball. When I look up, I see my plate guy standing at third base and I ask myself, "What the "F" are you doing here?" I proceed to follow protocol and take the B/R to third. As soon as he hit third, I turned around and was going to go check the ball. When I turned around, F( was on his hands and knees reaching through the fence to grab the ball. At this point, I think to myself, "Well, no need to go check it now. Home run." Plate guy, who had the responsibility of following the ball  and keeping his ass at home, wanted to put the B/R at second and I said NO. We had a huge blowup over that one (on the field, unfortunately) to the point that the assigner separated us the rest of the tourney.

 

He further egged it on by telling other umpires how I had screwed up. I finally got to the point that I had heard enough and asked him who's responsibility it is to take the B/R to third and he kept stumbling over his words until finally admitting that the base guy has the B/R to third and he was supposed to watch the ball.

 

Fortunately for me, the other umpires know which of us is the competent one.

how can a 'clean single' be a home run?

[wmmliggett]

I would have rather worked alone than with this guy too because had that been the case, none of this would have happened.

 

Just for the record, I did NOT kick the award. If a defensive player reaches for and/or touches a lodged ball, or a ball that bounds through or under a fence, the runners are entitled to all the bases they can achieve. Had F9 not gone for the ball and just continued to hold his arms up, we would have put the B/R back on second. Had my plate guy done his job, he would have seen the ball roll under the fence and he would have been able to kill it immediately and we could have stopped the runner at second. The entire mess happened because he did not do his job correctly 

[scrounge]

I would have rather worked alone than with this guy too because had that been the case, none of this would have happened.

 

Just for the record, I did NOT kick the award. If a defensive player reaches for and/or touches a lodged ball, or a ball that bounds through or under a fence, the runners are entitled to all the bases they can achieve. Had F9 not gone for the ball and just continued to hold his arms up, we would have put the B/R back on second. Had my plate guy done his job, he would have seen the ball roll under the fence and he would have been able to kill it immediately and we could have stopped the runner at second. The entire mess happened because he did not do his job correctly 

 

How's he supposed to see a ball roll under the fence from home plate? He might see the RF 'say' it's under the fence, but unless you're playing uphill, how on earth can he see the ball?

[Richvee]

 That's a trouble ball.  You were supposed to go out. 

 

 Any batted ball that has a chance of leaving the playing field in flight or after bouncing is considered trouble. . 

[wmmliggett]

It was a routine line drive that was going to drop in for a clean hit on a small field. The plate guy, with nobody on, is supposed to come out from behind the plate, trail the B/R to first base. Since the fence was a temporary one, there is no expectation that the ball is going to leave the playing field, or bounce over it. If the plate guy cannot see the ball roll under the RF fence after trailing the B/R up the line, then he has bigger issues. Maybe you guys in other parts of the world do things differently, but I followed the protocol of what we do in our area. It was NOT a trouble ball in the true sense of the term

[umpcoachfather]

So if you have no one on, ball hit to F4 who over throws F3 and the ball goes under the fence out of play but the F4 reaches for it the runner can take all the bases he can?  I'm missing something.  Did you discuss mechanics with your partner before the game? 

[umpcoachfather]

Why would he trail the runner to first on a line drive? 

[Richvee]

I dunno. A temporary fence would make me MORE likely to go out on anything that had a chance of reaching it. 

[umpcoachfather]

I'd be looking for written ground rules about that fence prior to the game, and then ensured they were discussed in detail at the plate meeting and hear the coaches say they affirm.   Or not show up cause I would have said to myself "sh*^ storm, don't accept gig" 

[umpcoachfather]

Plate meeting:

OK we have a temp fence in the outfield.  Any ball that goes under, have your outfielders raise there hands and we will come out and check.  Any ball under the fence will be a 2 base award, by rule.  If your outfielder reaches under and continues play and we cannot verify that it did go under, we will not hear any arguement afterwards, consider that your warning, if you do argue you will be immediatly ejected, if you dont like it, get a real fence.   

[James Walker]

I dunno. A temporary fence would make me MORE likely to go out on anything that had a chance of reaching it. 

That's exactly what I thought when I saw that.

[JaxRolo]

It was a routine line drive that was going to drop in for a clean hit on a small field. The plate guy, with nobody on, is supposed to come out from behind the plate, trail the B/R to first base.

Where you working FED mechanics?

[Jocko]

Learning opportunity.....

1) Pregame Pregame Pregame. HP covering 3B with noone on is a Fed mech. Albeit a bad one.

2) Once the ball is lodged, goes OOP or into DBT... IT'S DEAD. Matters not what little Johnny does. Smart coaches will keepp the runners running. It's your job to verify the ball went OOP and put runners where they belong. If F9 signals OOP and it isn't, EJ for UC. In this case, your partner was correct

3) THE CREW ARGUED ON THE FIELD??? : PROFESSIONALISM. At all times.

I'm not blasting you. You weren't 100% correct in every way, as you thought. In fact, the OP indicates that your partner was 100% spot on. He didn't trail the runner (correct), he took BR into 3B (correct if using Fed mechs), and he tried to put BR back at 2B (correct). Where exactly are you saying he screwed up?

[Jocko]

I agree with you not going out. No converging players, no possible diving catch/no catch, no possible F/F. You got that part right.

[th3]

" If a defensive player reaches for and/or touches a lodged ball, or a ball that bounds through or under a fence, the runners are entitled to all the bases they can achieve"

 

can someone tell me where i can find a rule cite on that?

[UmpJM]

th3,

 

You can find it here: http://www.bartel.org/calvinball/

 

JM

[umpcoachfather]

Stick ball manual Brooklyn addition circa 1957. 

[sdix00]

th3,

 

You can find it here: http://www.bartel.org/calvinball/

 

JM

 

 

Putting this in my library.   Awesome. 

[th3]

i assumed that but no one challenged it so i thought maybe i was missing something

[Welpe]

i assumed that but no one challenged it so i thought maybe i was missing something

 

I think everyone was too awestruck by the sanctimonious tone to notice.