Knowing your rotations

[umpcoachfather]

Jocko, Ump24 (even though your from Canada)

 

Would it be smart to assume ( i know already) that with that type of fence, you would think anything that can remotely go near the bottom would be trouble?  If a ball is hit with enough speed to get anywhere near the bottom would it not be a good idea to get out there?  especially in this case in which he said its a small field?  Not pointing out either of you are wrong, just looking for expertise here.  my thought is "man if it looks like it can go under im getting out there to avoid a mess." 

 

Also:

  F( was on his hands and knees reaching through the fence to grab the ball. At this point, I think to myself, "Well, no need to go check it now. Home run."

Balls dead at this point, how can touching a dead ball cause a base award?  if he touched it and caused it to go out, it changes from TOP to TOT base award. 

[UmpJM]

umpcoachfather,

 

In my experience, there is no need to umpire any differently on these fields than fields with "normal" fences.

 

Touching a dead ball can in no way cause a base award. You are correct that if the fielder applies a new impetus to the ball that causes it to go out of play, it could change the point of origin of the award.

 

Personally, I would never tell a coach at the plate conference "this is your warning" nor threaten him with ejection. It's discourteous and sets a bad tone.

 

As in all things in life, do as you think best.

 

JM

[umpcoachfather]

sorry the warning part and "get a fence" was meant to be humorous, normally I would have asked if the pitcher took his signs from the rubber but that was getting old.  I would agree that you dont change anything field to field, just wanted some thoughts on that type of fence; they have no structure at the bottom and with the mechanic of "go out on trouble balls" im just thinking that ( and I believe someone mentioned it earlier) you would assume a different type of trouble with that fence.  

[Jocko]

I employ the same Pause/Read/React technique regardless of field/fence. And, quite frankly, there is almost never a true trouble ball on these small fields. When I do work kiddie ball, my partner and I usually do zero rotations because the field is so small and the players not very good.

[Richvee]

Hopefully, I walked the field and took notice of the OF fence before the game. If I find there's gaps at the bottom, missing slats if it's an old wooden "roll up" fence, chances are  I'm going out more often. Pretty much on any ball I think is going to make it to the fence. We're talking small field here,  I'm sure my partner can move the few extra steps to cover little Johnny around the 60 foot bases. Normal fence, or temp fence that looks tight when I walk the field, absolutely not going out. However I do think the field/fence condition  does play a part in my decision. 

[JaxRolo]

I employ the same Pause/Read/React technique regardless of field/fence. And, quite frankly, there is almost never a true trouble ball on these small fields. When I do work kiddie ball, my partner and I usually do zero rotations because the field is so small and the players not very good.

good post.

Many times on small fields it's more of react thing.

[th3]

99% of regular season ball handled by adult umpires around here is one man...

[Jocko]

Upon rereading the OP, F9 threw up his hands signalling OOP. Then BU looked up again and saw him on his knees trying for the ball. F9 didn't cause the ball to go OOP. He reacted to poor crew mechanics and decided doing something was better than doing nothing. Small field = inexperience. This was definitely a GRD.

[Jocko]

no one challenged it

I did. See my 1st post.

[th3]

i believe you

[noumpere]

I would have rather worked alone than with this guy too because had that been the case, none of this would have happened.

 

Just for the record, I did NOT kick the award. If a defensive player reaches for and/or touches a lodged ball, or a ball that bounds through or under a fence, the runners are entitled to all the bases they can achieve. Had F9 not gone for the ball and just continued to hold his arms up, we would have put the B/R back on second. Had my plate guy done his job, he would have seen the ball roll under the fence and he would have been able to kill it immediately and we could have stopped the runner at second. The entire mess happened because he did not do his job correctly 

If you know he's reaching under the fence or for a lodged ball, as you claim in your OP, then you know the ball was OOP.  Award accordingly.

 

I do agree that if you can't tell, and he plays it, that the default should be that the ball remained in LBT and remains live.  But that's not what you said.

 

And, FWIW, some areas do have PU take the batter runner to third on a triple, so maybe your partner was working under those mechanics.  And, clearly oif the ball might have gone under the fence (as in "F9 raises his hands" or whatever), then the mechaics change-- BU goes out right now and PU takes the runner the rest of the way -- all with communication, of course.

[Jocko]

@Noumpere,

Good point on the communication. HP also requested BU to go check, which he did not. The more I read of this, the more I find HP correct, BU incorrect.

@Wmmlegit,

I am in no way berating or belittling you. You posted about how solid and correct your responsibility coverage was, and even admitted to making a scene with your HP ON THE FIELD I don't know your background, training, experience, or even name. Please take what I'm saying in the spirit it's intended. LEARN FROM YOUR MISTAKES, and move on. I do recommend next time you see this guy you make amends. He probably has you on block (I would), but IF you see him at a tourney or a Burger King, tell him. Shake hands. Keep it professional. PM me if you want to talk further privately.

@All Readers,

This is a fellow umpire who obviously needs training/mentoring. Let's lead from the front.

Ok. I'm done.

[mstaylor]

I came to this late but here is my take. 

1. Temp fences, I am responsible for installing temp fences for travel softball and baseball, including the USSSA World Series. The way many are designed is there is supposed to be a six inch flap at the bottom to catch ground balls. Due to ground conditions this doesn't always happen. Others just touch the ground catches nothing. If you have a temp fence, ANYTHING near it is a trouble ball. 

2. Small field mechanics are as varied as baseball systems. Also is small field 60ft or 70ft? With 60ft, most tournaments give ALL outfield coverage to PU. 70ft runs basically 90ft mechanics. 

3. Plate meeting, tell the managers there is a temp fence, if the ball gets through it have the fielder raise his hands, do not dig. If the player tries to dig it out we can not confirm that it is out and the ball will stay live. If he raises his hands the ball stays live, we will return runners if needed. 

4. I don't get where you are saying HR. It's either going to be a two base award or whatever they got. 

5. Right or wrong, you DO NOT argue with your partner on the field. 

6. There were things done wrong on both sides, the fact remains, it happened, learn from it and don't repeat the mistake. Don't cry to fellow umpires telling them that the other guy was an idiot, makes you look just as bad. If another umpire asks what happened, explain what happened buut admit mistakes were made on both sides. 

7. No doubt the PU had the OOP call since you came in, however, once he has it out, it's your's to confirm. 

[yawetag]

he took BR into 3B (correct if using Fed mechs)

 

My initial thought was that he knew BU was going out, so he went to 3B to start taking the runner.

[Jocko]

he took BR into 3B (correct if using Fed mechs)

 My initial thought was that he knew BU was going out, so he went to 3B to start taking the runner.good point. Very good point. Again, I'm having difficulty finding where HP erred.

[Replacematt]

We had a huge blowup over that one (on the field, unfortunately) to the point that the assigner separated us the rest of the tourney.

Hmmm...good role modeling by a teacher.