First play in the infield

[mesa4234]

I should know this, but for some reason it is tripping me up. 

 

NFHS R1, BR hits grounder to f4, f4 tries to tag r1, then overthrows first base and the ball goes out of play. 

 

Would it technically be 2 bases from the time of the throw, or from the time of the pitch? Does the attempted tag nullify the "first throw in the infield?"

[semper_fi_72]

2 bases

BR gets 2nd

R1 goes to 3B

[alex7]

mesa

 

you know that in your situation it doesn't matter, but you want to know if it's technically from TOP or TOT.  The definition of a "play" was discussed in another thread recently and I believe an attempted tag was considered a play.  A pump fake wasn't, but an actually attempted tag (attempt to actually record an out) was considered a play.

 

So in the OP, that's a 2-base award from the TOT as the 2nd play by an IFer.

[UmpJM]

mesa,

 

As alex7 suggests, the attempted tag is the"first play" (whether successful or not), so the throw out of play becomes a Time of Throw award.

 

JM

[noumpere]

mesa,

 

As alex7 suggests, the attempted tag is the"first play" (whether successful or not), so the throw out of play becomes a Time of Throw award.

 

JM

Just make sure it really is an attempted tag and not just a feint or a step toward the runner.  which I know JM knows but wanted to throw out there for others who might be confused.

[th3]

doesnt FED specifically say "first throw by infielder" for TOP in the baserunning awards table?

[Richvee]

doesnt FED specifically say "first throw by infielder" for TOP in the baserunning awards table?

No. The tag attempt is considered a play. 

[SnareDrum]

FED says: "Two Bases (Batter and Runners):

5) First throw by infielder and ball goes out of play or lodged in or under fence. Determined from base occupied at TOP.

6) For any subsequent play by an infielder or for any throw by an outfielder and ball goes out of play or lodges in or under fence. Determined from base occupied at TOT.

[th3]

so what am i missing?

[Richvee]

so what am i missing?

The throw becomes the "subsequent play" in 6. The tag attempt is the 1st play by the infielder. 

[th3]

then why does it talk about a 1st throw in 5?

[UmpJM]

th3,

 

Because whoever writes the FED rule book is not a careful writer.

 

JM

[th3]

is it that simple? ok...

[Haid D' Salaami]

At the time of the throw where were the runners?.. had BR already touched 1st? This is a time of throw award cause the attempt to tag was the 1st play?

[Richvee]

then why does it talk about a 1st throw in 5?

  In 5, 1st throw is the first play from the IF and goes OOP for 2 bases from TOP. If there's a tag attempt, then the first throw is not the first play. 

 

IOW- The second play by the IF may be the  1st throw. It's still the 2nd play and 2 bases TOT. 

[Ump29]

The following is taken from the Baseball Canada rules interpretations:

 

6)Plays / Attempted Plays

 

Interpretation: A play or an attempted play shall be considered as one of the five

following situations:

 

Tag or attempted tag of a runner

 

Tag or attempted tag of a base

 

Throw from another fielder in an attempt to get an out

 

Rundown

 

Balk

[johnnyg08]

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