NCAA Test Question

[UmpTTS43]

This is a question from the NCAA test. The NCAA OBS rule is now the same as OBR. Let me know what you think and why. I believe there is no correct answer.

R1, R3, no outs. R1 is stealing and gets caught in a rundown and is obstructed. After obstruction has been called on F4, R3 is thrown out at the plate.

a. R1 is returned to first base and R3 is awarded home.

b. Award R1 third base on the obstruction.

c. R3 is awarded home since he was advancing to the plate when obstruction was called and R1 is awarded second base.

d. The out on R3 stands

[jnazz]

Since there was a play being made (ie: the rundown) and there was no mention of the ball being in flight (having a possible overthrow), the only answer that works for me is C. I say you kill the play immediatly on the obstruction award R1 second base and R3 home if in your judgement he would've scored without the obstruction.

The thing that gets me is that R3 is thrown out at the plate so you know he wouldn't have scored. So......... Maybe I have R2 and R3 on this one after the obstruction.

[amarillo]

Why do you think there is no correct answer? Just curious and what is your debunking of each option?

[Guest]

I gave my opinion somewhere else, so I'll leave this for the guys here to tussle over for a bit. Instead, I'll point out the flaws of each answer:

Why do you think there is no correct answer? Just curious and what is your debunking of each option?

However, on the surface, there doesn't appear to be a right answer because:

A) A rundown is considered a play, making this type A obstruction. Under 7.06a, you have to award R1 at least 2B

B) Under the conditions of 7.06a, awarding R1 2 bases on this play is simply absurd.

C) The award of 2B to R1 is correct, however, simply because he is advancing to the plate at the time of the OBS does not mean R3 is awarded home.

D) The play is dead as soon as OBS occurs on R1, so the fact that there was a play at the plate is irrelevant - the ball was not in play when it occurred.

[JaxRolo]

Does matter if R1 is going back to 1st when obstructed or am I thinking a different rule set?

[amarillo]

Just a thought and maybe not even close but the loophole could be that the runner in the rundown was obstructed by a fielder without the ball so a play wasn't being made on him and that makes it a delayed dead ball allowing the play at the plate to happen.

[mstaylor]

I don't have a NCAA book so clarify a few things for me. Did NCAA change the obstruction rule again this year? If it is the same as OBR you can't throw anybody out after a type A obstruction in OBR. Last year they used the two types of obstruction the same as OBR but made it a delayed dead ball like FED.

If they are using the same version as last year then I have R1 getting second and R3 out at the plate.

[Guest]

I don't have a NCAA book so clarify a few things for me. Did NCAA change the obstruction rule again this year? If it is the same as OBR you can't throw anybody out after a type A obstruction in OBR. Last year they used the two types of obstruction the same as OBR but made it a delayed dead ball like FED.

If they are using the same version as last year then I have R1 getting second and R3 out at the plate.

Mike,

Refer to the OP. NCAA has now ammended their OBS rules to coincide with OBR.

[Rich Ives]

Just a thought and maybe not even close but the loophole could be that the runner in the rundown was obstructed by a fielder without the ball so a play wasn't being made on him and that makes it a delayed dead ball allowing the play at the plate to happen.

If tjhere's a rundown it's Type a/1 because a rundown is a play on the runner.

And you can't be obstructed by a fielder WITH the ball.

[jnazz]

Does matter if R1 is going back to 1st when obstructed or am I thinking a different rule set?

No. Always award the next base if OBS occurs during a rundown.

[jnazz]

Just a thought and maybe not even close but the loophole could be that the runner in the rundown was obstructed by a fielder without the ball so a play wasn't being made on him and that makes it a delayed dead ball allowing the play at the plate to happen.

If tjhere's a rundown it's Type a/1 because a rundown is a play on the runner.

And you can't be obstructed by a fielder WITH the ball.

and I believe the only time there is a DDB situation on a rundown is if a throw is in flight. There may be an overthrow in this situation which would allow runners to advance at their own perril.

[Rich Ives]

Just a thought and maybe not even close but the loophole could be that the runner in the rundown was obstructed by a fielder without the ball so a play wasn't being made on him and that makes it a delayed dead ball allowing the play at the plate to happen.

If tjhere's a rundown it's Type a/1 because a rundown is a play on the runner.

And you can't be obstructed by a fielder WITH the ball.

and I believe the only time there is a DDB situation on a rundown is if a throw is in flight. There may be an overthrow in this situation which would allow runners to advance at their own perril.

The ball is dead at the moment of the obstruction. No "ifs".

[Guest]

Just a thought and maybe not even close but the loophole could be that the runner in the rundown was obstructed by a fielder without the ball so a play wasn't being made on him and that makes it a delayed dead ball allowing the play at the plate to happen.

If tjhere's a rundown it's Type a/1 because a rundown is a play on the runner.

And you can't be obstructed by a fielder WITH the ball.

and I believe the only time there is a DDB situation on a rundown is if a throw is in flight. There may be an overthrow in this situation which would allow runners to advance at their own perril.

The ball is dead at the moment of the obstruction. No "ifs".

This is correct, however, jnazz is not incorrect to suggest that if there is a thrown ball in flight at the time of the OBS, it could factor in the awarding of bases.

If that ball turns out to be airmailed wildly, including but not limited to going out of play, you can award more than one base.

- PBUC 7.27

[jnazz]

Good. I just re-read JR and this is now clear to me. If the ball is in flight we still call TIME and obstruction, but we can factor in where the throw ends up in our award. It is not a DDB situation. I had the right idea just the wrong interpretation. Therefore, if the ball has not been released by the fielder when OBS occurs you cannot take a throw after the OBS into consideration. Correct??

[Guest]

Good. I just re-read JR and this is now clear to me. If the ball is in flight we still call TIME and obstruction, but we can factor in where the throw ends up in our award. It is not a DDB situation. I had the right idea just the wrong interpretation. Therefore, if the ball has not been released by the fielder when OBS occurs you cannot take a throw after the OBS into consideration. Correct??

Yes

PBUC:

Note that this section of the [OBS] rule ... also provides for cases when a thrown ball is in flight at the moment [OBS] occurs. In such cases, the umpire shall take into consideration the results of the throw when making the award...In cases such as this, the umpires have the responsibility of determining whether a throw is made before or after the obstruction.

[calablue]

Looks like the correct answer should be "None of the above". R1 is awarded Second on the OBS and R3 returns to 3B due to the DB situation. You now have R2 and R3.

[mazzamouth]

This is correct, however, jnazz is not incorrect to suggest that if there is a thrown ball in flight at the time of the OBS, it could factor in the awarding of bases.

If that ball turns out to be airmailed wildly, including but not limited to going out of play, you can award more than one base.

- PBUC 7.27

[mstaylor]

I read in the OP that NCAA had switched to coincide to OBR, I was questioning if it really was correct. Last year they went half FED/ half OBR, everything was DDB but they had type A & B. If it is truley the same as OBR then the ball is dead immediately. I just wanted to make sure he didn't misunderstand which way it is written.

[UmpTTS43]

I read in the OP that NCAA had switched to coincide to OBR, I was questioning if it really was correct. Last year they went half FED/ half OBR, everything was DDB but they had type A & B. If it is truley the same as OBR then the ball is dead immediately. I just wanted to make sure he didn't misunderstand which way it is written.

NCAA did change this year. Instead of type A and B, it is 1 and 2. The only significant difference is, in NCAA, is that when there is a pickoff attempt, the fielder is not allowed to block the base without the ball.

[mstaylor]

So it is immediate dead with 1 and delayed with 2?

[Guest]

This is correct, however, jnazz is not incorrect to suggest that if there is a thrown ball in flight at the time of the OBS, it could factor in the awarding of bases.

If that ball turns out to be airmailed wildly, including but not limited to going out of play, you can award more than one base.

- PBUC 7.27

if the ball is thrown wild it makes no difference... The runner is in a rundown, and this is considered a play, when OBS happens the ball is dead immediately, and the runner is awarded 2nd base.. and because the OBS happen and the ball is dead the runner can't be advanced unless forced to advance. We just went over this in the School here...LOL

play..

bases loaded, no outs, Pitcher turns and tries to throw out R2, R2 gets into a rundown and is going back to 2nd when he is Obstructed. At the time of OBS R3 stayed at 3rd, R1 advanced to 2nd.

Live or Dead ball?

place runners

R3

R2

R1

..good luck..LOL

First, I can respect that you just learned that at school and they teach you what they teach you, but everything you mention is in direct contrast to the PBUC and MLB manuals, so I kindly suggest you confirm what you heard with an instructor. No offense. Refer to 7.27 and 7.30 Example 8 of the PBUCUM.

Secondly, I take it this was an example provided in class. Ball is dead as soon as the defense commits OBS. R2 gets 3B as per the conditions of 7.06a. This forces R3 to score. Leave R1 at 2B because, even though he was not in legal occupation of it at the time of the OBS, this is the base he would've (and in fact had) reached sans OBS.

[Umpire in Chief]

MST that is correct.

I believe we will see this trickle down to FED in the not too distant future.

[mstaylor]

MST that is correct.

I believe we will see this trickle down to FED in the not too distant future.

Maybe but don't count on it. NCAA traditionally was the same as OBR. A couple of years ago they went to always DDB but kept the A/B enforcement. FED has been always DDB and always at least a base, they want obstruction to be as punitive as possible. For some reason the always DDB trickled up to college, not the other way. I welcome the change but don't expect it anytime soon. Of course, Pete will mourn the loss if they do.

[AZump78]

I'm with the OP-None of the multiple choice answers are correct.

OBS with a play? "TIME!" Then award the runners. You know R1 is going to second. As far as R3 goes? Its your judgment whether or not he gets home. Its good to be the King!

[jnazz]

I'm with the OP-None of the multiple choice answers are correct.

OBS with a play? "TIME!" Then award the runners. You know R1 is going to second. As far as R3 goes? Its your judgment whether or not he gets home. Its good to be the King!

The King?