Would you ignore the missed base?

[renegadewolf]

I can't help but wonder if perhaps instead of giving it to him, the real character builder would be in letting him earn it. Without getting into parenting methods and personal morality and what not too much, sometimes in life there are things we try, adn we try and try and try, yet despite it all we fail. This kid failed, and there is no shame in failure, the shame lie in not bothering to try in the first place. Be the authority figure you are and enforce the rules as they are without allowing personality to enter into the call. Just my humble opinion

[Dannytheman]

I can't help but wonder if perhaps instead of giving it to him, the real character builder would be in letting him earn it. Without getting into parenting methods and personal morality and what not too much, sometimes in life there are things we try, adn we try and try and try, yet despite it all we fail. This kid failed, and there is no shame in failure, the shame lie in not bothering to try in the first place. Be the authority figure you are and enforce the rules as they are without allowing personality to enter into the call. Just my humble opinion

Thank you for stating your opinion. I respectively disagree! You know what they say about opinions, don't you?

I made my decision, I stand publicly behind it. It was my call. He touched the base. Safe!

End of discussion.

[HokieUmp]

I would call the missed base. For me, my 'right' thing is my integrity, I prefer that way; no one gets attached. I ride into town, shoot the bad guys (or the guys the townspeople paid me to shoot, either way), and then ride off into the sunset.

The fact that you consider the Coaches, player and others as "the bad guys" disturbs me a little. I am sorry you have never built a repor with any of the leagues or players you service. You seem to have no emotional attachment and I am happy for you that integrity is fully intact. Sometimes my humanity overtakes my integrity. OK, there, I admit it.

Well, I'm not sure I like the implication that I've somehow sacrificed my humanity entirely, simply because I don't embrace every player, coach and fan as if they were my family. They aren't. I'm not in their family, either. What disturbs me - only a little, but still - is that we're attaching such great import to "Timmy's" home run. He's what, 10, 12, in this story? (I forget, since this started a while ago.) And yet, there's this implication that we've stolen such a highlight from his life, that it'll never be the same - he'll end up a crack dealer or man-whore, and spend his nights with a needle stuck in his arm, mumbling about "that call."

My point being: it's a game, and the people that play it and are good at it are elevated to a far loftier status than they should, for the act of being able to run and throw and hit better than others. And thus, Timmy's need for a home run - to show that he's just as good as the other kids - to establish his self-esteem. The 'jock-worship' of America, if you will; as if growing-up years aren't hard enough. (And make no mistake - I'll be making my own contribution to that in about 10 days, given the avatar that I have, since CAWL3DG3 F00TB@WL TAHM, B1TCH3Z!!!! ........ Ahem. Yes. Well.)

But to your point: I've worked a 'closed shop' for four years. My closed shop was my local league in Australia, in a town of 27,000 people, never mind the much smaller baseball community. Not only was I one of only one or two Australian-certified umpires in town at any given moment, I worked with some of the adults involved, and at least knew others by sight, and knew a number of the kids in the kid's part of the league. And FFS, I served for two years on the league board as the umpire representative.

And you know what? While everyone might be all smiles and rainbows and unicorns before a game, you're STILL not part of the show. You - and your partner, IF he's not a guy provided by team to work the bases, otherwise it IS just you - are out there on an island alone, and when the call goes against someone, they're not afraid to let you know that you wronged them, perhaps mortally. This, in a league where people DID know me more as [NAME REDACTED] than "Blue." My wife wouldn't go to games, because of comments she could hear in the stands. (Personally, I think she was too sensitive to it, because she's pretty fond of me, more than the strength of the comments, but still.)

So, for the coaches and players and fans, it IS personal. At least from first pitch to last out. But my "humanity" code says that if you like someone, you like them, and shouldn't treat them like SH*# just a little part of the time. Conversely, if there's someone you DON'T like, you don't be two-faced about it, and act like they're great and kiss ass for a while - don't be rude or mean; just be civil. And if they're people that you're just interacting with for a short time - like umpiring their game - you do the best you can for them during that time, smile at the funny/sweet/just nice parts, get pissed/take charge when you need to, shoot/eject/restrict when your hand is forced, and ride out of town. If you see people often enough, you converse with them, maybe make mental notes about how this kid or that is getting better, or still hanging in there. But don't think that they're your friend. Because they're not. Especially when that 'safe' call costs them a run. (In fact, I think sometimes when the umpire is a familiar person, some participants think that allows them to get an extra helping of crazy from the buffet.)

My old association - or let's say, my last one, and the one to which I hope to return at some point - services the South Hampton Roads area - from Virginia Beach westward to Suffolk (and some beyond that), and sometimes goes north of the James River. The last time I heard a stat, we covered 6,000 to 7,000 games or more, with about 140 guys. So we don't see the same places that often. I'm fine with that; if I want to get into a league, I'll go be involved when my grandson/granddaughter are old enough, if I'm in the area. Then I'll worry about that rapport with the local folks.

It certainly could just be me, but it's like my work. I've never been active duty (my wife retired after 21 years in the USAF), but I've been a DoD employee for more than 24 years now. This is my 3rd time overseas (about 10 years so far and counting), plus another four years in Hawaii, among other places. I've never been shot at, but I work to protect the warfighter, and to help stop bad guys from actually committing their bad guy acts, to keep the warfighters out of trouble in the first place. And I don't do it because I love each one of them, or because I've built a rapport with them all. I'm sure that some of the people in the US military are like some people everywhere you go - jerks or d-bags. But I do what I do simply because it needs to be done, and I help contribute to it. I try to help our guys 'win' - defined by keeping them alive - so they can go on to do whatever it is they're destined to do.

Same as a ball game. I go in make sure they follow the rules, and make the calls, so that everyone can get what they can get from that experience, and so we can all go on to do what we do.

I realize this post got a little more metaphysical/philosophical then perhaps I intended, so let me close with this:

CAWL3DG3 F00TB@WL TAHM, B1TCH3Z!!1!1!!1!!!

[Jocko]

zzzzzzzzzzzz.....yaaaawwwnnn..ssstttrrreeetttccchhh..scratchscratchscratch......smack..smack.

college football. Pppfffttt.

[HokieUmp]

zzzzzzzzzzzz.....yaaaawwwnnn..ssstttrrreeetttccchhh..scratchscratchscratch......smack..smack.

college football. Pppfffttt.

I take that to mean you don't much care for the game? I don't have a problem with it - people like and dislike lots of things - but it is really safe for you to have that attitude in Alabama? I'm worried about your safety, Trout.

[Jocko]

Lol. It's rough sometimes. The Bammers give me sh*t all the time. I have an open ticket to almost any Bama game and can stand on the sidelines, but never go. What's the point? I loved football when I played, but I never gave a tinker's dam about NCAA football.

[Pete Peterson Sr]

Lol. It's rough sometimes. The Bammers give me sh*t all the time. I have an open ticket to almost any Bama game and can stand on the sidelines, but never go. What's the point? I loved football when I played, but I never gave a tinker's dam about NCAA football.

If you don't give a rip about CFB, why do you choose to use the slur "Bammers" , as if you were a heathen Auburn fan ?

[Jocko]

Lol. It's rough sometimes. The Bammers give me sh*t all the time. I have an open ticket to almost any Bama game and can stand on the sidelines, but never go. What's the point? I loved football when I played, but I never gave a tinker's dam about NCAA football.

If you don't give a rip about CFB, why do you choose to use the slur "Bammers" , as if you were a heathen Auburn fan ?

my ignorance. I thought it was an accepted term. Oops.

[BRUMP]

So I know this thread is dead but to bad im gonna bring it back anyway....

i had a 10yr old rec game yesterday night, one of the teams had a girl on it. she was smaller than everyone else by a good margin and couldnt catch up with the pitcher she ks first 3 times up. i noticed her parents and all 4 grandparents were watching her play as they were on the 1b side and i overheard them from a. bottom last girls team is down a ton, and on a 3-2 after fouling off 4 pitches in a row she starts to swing and she went around. pitch ruled a ball, and she sprint to first like she just won a million dollars. her parents and grandparents were all smiling and cheering "great job honey" and taking pictures and the girl couldnt have looked happier. after i had moved to b the HC from opposing team wanted an appeal. (she did swing and it was distinct but not a gimme call either) my partner points and appeals to me, the girl and her whole family look at me. i didnt even say anything, didnt sell it at all just gave a lazy safe mechanic. i didnt have the heart to punch her out. next batter ks and game over. girl and family go home happy

so to danny, trout and the rest of you who i told just call what you see and dont see selectively....well.....i guess maybe you can make an exception

[Jocko]

;)

[kylejt]

Back on point. I've found that "situational" calls should start filtering into an umpire's thinking at around five years into his career. That's if he's progressing, and learning along the way. Before that, they're thinking too much, and not able to grasp the concept.

I'm going to put on my asbestos McDavids now, and stand by.

[Dannytheman]

Back on point. I've found that "situational" calls should start filtering into an umpire's thinking at around five years into his career. That's if he's progressing, and learning along the way. Before that, they're thinking too much, and not able to grasp the concept.

I'm going to put on my asbestos McDavids now, and stand by.

You won't get an guff from me. Not as much about years IMHO, but about # of games worked and your beyond basic understanding of that game. In a couple years I will be able to work High School and more senior games again, and I will adjust my style accordingly. But maturation and knowing ones place in the game is very important!

[BRUMP]

Back on point. I've found that "situational" calls should start filtering into an umpire's thinking at around five years into his career. That's if he's progressing, and learning along the way. Before that, they're thinking too much, and not able to grasp the concept.

Well I'm five years in so I guess I'm right on scheduale!

[Stan W.]

Lol. It's rough sometimes. The Bammers give me sh*t all the time. I have an open ticket to almost any Bama game and can stand on the sidelines, but never go. What's the point? I loved football when I played, but I never gave a tinker's dam about NCAA football.

If you don't give a rip about CFB, why do you choose to use the slur "Bammers" , as if you were a heathen Auburn fan ?

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRR EAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGLLLLLLLLLLLLLLE.......................um, from one of the unrepentent heathen

[Pete Peterson Sr]

Lol. It's rough sometimes. The Bammers give me sh*t all the time. I have an open ticket to almost any Bama game and can stand on the sidelines, but never go. What's the point? I loved football when I played, but I never gave a tinker's dam about NCAA football.

If you don't give a rip about CFB, why do you choose to use the slur "Bammers" , as if you were a heathen Auburn fan ?

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRR EAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGLLLLLLLLLLLLLLE.......................um, from one of the unrepentent heathen

And a healthy ROLL TIDE to you, my friend.

[Mr Umpire]

I know I am late to this one.

I see both sides of this. But, as they say, sometimes you just have to umpire. And, I will just leave it at that. I am not "flaming" one side or the other. Nor defending either side's thought on this. In situations like the "hijacking" concept, do what you can live with.

[UmpireSam]

Preface: I know it was wrong, but......

This game had no outcome on the results of the season. HT up 456-0 in the top of the last inning. 2 outs on VT. A kid who rarely ever makes contact whatsoever takes one deep. HT properly appealed BR missed 2B. I know he missed it, but I don't want to be THAT guy when the game means squat and the VT is behind by at least 12. Score the run. B4 backwards Ks. Game over.

To the teams, the game didn't mean s**t.

To that player, it was the 1st time ever he went yard

.Maybe call time !

Really coach ? Did I hear you right ?

Really your winning by what ?

Head Coach, do you really want to make this appeal ?

Announce to crowd, the **** coach even though his team is winning ---- to 0

Wants to appeal the batter runner missing second

Really.

I will make the right call as soon as fight ends...

[Jocko]

Preface: I know it was wrong, but......

This game had no outcome on the results of the season. HT up 456-0 in the top of the last inning. 2 outs on VT. A kid who rarely ever makes contact whatsoever takes one deep. HT properly appealed BR missed 2B. I know he missed it, but I don't want to be THAT guy when the game means squat and the VT is behind by at least 12. Score the run. B4 backwards Ks. Game over.

To the teams, the game didn't mean s**t.

To that player, it was the 1st time ever he went yard

.Maybe call time !

Really coach ? Did I hear you right ?

Really your winning by what ?

Head Coach, do you really want to make this appeal ?

Announce to crowd, the **** coach even though his team is winning ---- to 0

Wants to appeal the batter runner missing second

Really.

I will make the right call as soon as fight ends...

That how they do it at Disney? :D

[Dannytheman]

Preface: I know it was wrong, but......

This game had no outcome on the results of the season. HT up 456-0 in the top of the last inning. 2 outs on VT. A kid who rarely ever makes contact whatsoever takes one deep. HT properly appealed BR missed 2B. I know he missed it, but I don't want to be THAT guy when the game means squat and the VT is behind by at least 12. Score the run. B4 backwards Ks. Game over.

To the teams, the game didn't mean s**t.

To that player, it was the 1st time ever he went yard

.Maybe call time !

Really coach ? Did I hear you right ?

Really your winning by what ?

Head Coach, do you really want to make this appeal ?

Announce to crowd, the **** coach even though his team is winning ---- to 0

Wants to appeal the batter runner missing second

Really.

I will make the right call as soon as fight ends...

I think calling safe on the appeal is faster and less argumentative, but that's me.

[UmpTTS43]

I think calling the out, a result caused by the player's mistake, is the best way to get out of a gawd awful game. Life is tough. Lessons need to be learned when things are done incorrectly. As an impartial judicator of the rules of the game I have no time for awarding failure. You do your job, I'll do mine. Miss a base, that's on you. Defense correctly appeals, that's on them. My call reflects the result of both team's actions. Bet little "Timmy" NEVER misses a base again.

I really don't like the appeasement and touchy feely coddling of our youth that seems to be in vogue right now. Teach lessons, not apathy.

[Dannytheman]

I think calling the out, a result caused by the player's mistake, is the best way to get out of a gawd awful game. Life is tough. Lessons need to be learned when things are done incorrectly. As an impartial judicator of the rules of the game I have no time for awarding failure. You do your job, I'll do mine. Miss a base, that's on you. Defense correctly appeals, that's on them. My call reflects the result of both team's actions. Bet little "Timmy" NEVER misses a base again.

I really don't like the appeasement and touchy feely coddling of our youth that seems to be in vogue right now. Teach lessons, not apathy.

I see a couple people agree with, what are in my opinion, your hard ass comments. I was wondering if you read this entire thread or just jumped into page 5. Your opinion is appreciated, I just think based on the long scenerios given you are utterly and totally wrong. But I'm just a Little League umpire, that's all I do anymore. I see these kids come from the age of 6 until they turn 12 every day year in and year out. I don't want to treat young kids like adults, there enough hard asses out there like you to do it.

I have more to say, but in accordance with proper decorum, I will stop here.

[UmpTTS43]

In the original OP it was about an actual competitive game. It then turned into some contrived hypothetical blowout that is impossible. In either case it is your resposibility to do your job. I appreciate your view but I disagree. Deem me a hard ass if you like, but I would counter that my actions are more in line with building one's character and making one responsible for their actions.

Let's ponder another outlandish senario.

Little Johnny wasn't the best student in school and in fact never got an A, let alone a 100%, on any of his tests. This day however, Johnny seemed to know all of the material and blew through the test with ease. The next day, Ms. Shumaker his teacher, brought little Johnny over to her desk to commend him on his effort. "Johnny, I'm so impressed. You only missed one question out of the 50. You should be very proud of yourself. This 98 is the best you've ever done."

"A 98?" Johnny asked curiously while having a heavy heart. "I was positive that I got them all right."

"Well," replied Ms. Shumaker, "the questions you did answer you got right, but you put no answer for question #32."

"Ah, gee Ms. Shumaker, I think I just missed that question and skipped over it."

"You mean you just skipped over and didn't mean to?" questioned Ms. Shumaker. Johnny nodded knowing that he messed up. "Oh, in that case, you get a 100."

If you feel that you have a duty to help mold kids while umpiring, mold them to be better men and women for being accountable for their mistakes. Effort can be recognized but the results are what matters.

[Jocko]

:blah :blah

[UmpTTS43]

:blah

Sometimes I type just to hear me talk.

You know what I'm talking about. :wave:

[Jocko]

:blah

Sometimes I type just to hear me talk.

You know what I'm talking about.

absolutely. And I agree with you 99.9% of the time. Once in a great while, the cosmic tumblers fall into place and the universe unlocks itself and an opportunity arises like the ones mentioned. I don't know whether or not I'd make the non-call again, but don't regret the 1 time I did.